Why is MMA so Angry?
April 27, 2007 by nopstar
I often ponder if Muay Thai will survive MMA’s influence in American culture. I know it’s an odd statement to make. I’m fully aware that for the most part, Muay Thai is riding on crest of MMA’s rising popularity in the States. I see more and more Muay Thai gyms’ offering BJJ and BJJ Dojo’s offering Muay Thai.
In 10 years from now will we still have Muay Thai Camps in America? Will we have any stand alone BJJ dojos? Or will we just have MMA gyms? I think it’s clear that MMA is here to stay, I think within a decade boxing is going to be back on network television
It’s a strange symbiotic relationship driven by the popularity of UFC. It seems like less and less promoters are interested in putting on Muay Thai events; the big money is putting on MMA shows. The latest local event in my area was charging $50 for the cheap seats, what’s even a bigger piss take is that the venue Kezar is a dilapidated pile of shit. Give me a fucking break.
My one issue with MMA culture is that its so agro, what’s up with that? I don’t think it has anything to do with Brazilian Bravado, I think it’s American/SoCal MMA that’s so angry. The whole Southern California MMA ethos can be summed up by their flagship brand Tapout “American Arrogant and In Ya Face” basically says it all.
I went to an MMA bout a couple of months ago in San Jose and I’ve never seen so many Skulls, pitbulls, and tribal prints on T-shirts in my life. Where does all that energy come from? Is it the UFC and the way they promote the sport? Is MMA perceived like this in other countries? I don’t know I’m asking you.
I think it’s going to be hard for traditional Muay Thai to survive. I think in the next several years Mc’Muay Thai schools are going to start springing up all over the place.
What do you guys think?
I tend to agree. MMA’s slight nod to Muay Thai for striking techniques just results in a bunch of MMA’ers who take a few classes from a MT instructor who himself has limited MT knowledge. This thereby dilutes true MT in the US. The one positive sign is that I noticed poeple who like MMA seem to enjoy the stand-up part of it best, and dislike all the boring wrestling, which would seem to bode well for MT. Thankfully, there is a large Thai and SE asian community in the US to keep true MT alive.
I totally agree with this post. One positive that may come out of it though, is allowing “real” muay thai events to be put on in the states without all the modified rules. The lack of elbows, for example, in California make the muay thai bouts really different. So… I guess I am saying, that if anyone still actually puts on muay thai bouts in america it may become more like “real” muay thai..? Maybe that is just wishful thinking.
Also, you know.. the whole aggro t-shirt thing.. It is hilarious how insecure some people are. I mean, some of the stuff looks kind of cool. I actually like some of the less-outrageous Affliction clothes (weird that they have that shit at Bloomingdales now… ha ha ha) but it really seems to be about “look how tough I am.” I particularly love when some fat, bloated bastard that weights 300+ pounds and struggles up a flight of stairs has a “Tap or Snap” shirt on. Seriously, dude, cmon….
Most of the guys I have seen in the UFC and KOTC essentially dont know shit about muay thai or boxing for that matter but they know loads about steroids and being angry.
Im not impressed.
It seems to me that MMA fans, more than any other fight fans, seem to be “experts” in the fight game. Many fans seem to train or know someone that grapples. Take into account that many of these people are also 20-30 year old males and you have a good bunch of wanna be tough guys. I actually really like MMA and grappling, but many of the fans just don’t float my boat. The overweight, big fat, beer drinking, shaved head, goat-tee having, nacho eating fan with a Tap Out shirt comes to mind.
The thing I ‘love’ most about MMA events is how agro and tough people are because they know someone that’s fighting. Big F*’n Deal!! I guess those people are living vicariously through that person and that in their minds makes them a certified bad ass. Give those WWE graduates alcohol and a ticket and you basically have a trailer park wedding reception (fights included) with a smattering of respectful and knowledgeable fans. I’m a huge MMA fun but I would rather watch the fights on the tube with some real beer and bbq.
You guys are making perfect points. I’m from about 30 miles from Matt Hughes and about an hour and a half from Miletich’s gym. So now every MMA fanboy is or was “best friends with Matt Hughes” or some shit like that. This type of attitude (from the fans mostly) has really turned me off from MMA nowadays. I have a Blue belt in Gracie Jiu Jitsu but, I don’t even want to train MMA anymore. All I want to do is Muay Thai.
I think the reason I enjoy this site so much is that it hasn’t sold out to the popularity of MMA (ahem…Fairtex). Not that there is anything wrong with it I guess but like I said I just want Muay Thai.
I don’t know where the aggro attitude comes from in so-cal. I’m originally from Seattle area and have been living in so-cal for about 10 years now. It really blew me away how everybody in so-cal thinks they are tuff. And, MMA seems to have soaked up that “screw everybody / I’m the baddest” attitude.
Don’t get me wrong, I like building up to a fight, but I think aome MMA fighters promote bad blood because they are insecure in their abilities.
Muay Thai (MT only, not cross-trained) practitioners seem to be more respectful, in my opinion, to their oppenents due to the respect shared for the sport.
As far as the fat guys wearing “Tapout” shirts, let them be. They are just fans promoting their sport of choice. Just because I wear a Seahawks Jersey, doesn’t mean I think I am the next Shawn Alexander.
actually i have nothing against MMA since my MT instructor is an instructor in MMA…
he knows alotta stuffs and he has great respect for all kinda of martial arts..
Modified rules reli turn MT fans off… wat’s MT when u cannot clinch for a standard time to prove ur clinching and knee skill?wat’s MT with elbow pad…?
tat’s puss…
but wat i do hope MMA learners can achieve is tat,
when u grapple, u grapple good…
if ur doing MT roundhouse, make sure it’s a good and powerful roundhouse…
no point learning so many diverse Martial arts but u can’t get none of the basics rite…
Have you guys heard much about PRIDE? It’s basically the Japanese counterpart to the UFC. The typical MMA fan that goes to PRIDE shows is *vastly* different from the typical MMA fans in the States. PRIDE fans don’t boo, and they clap when fighters execute grappling reversals….
The UFC owners recently bought PRIDE though, so I don’t know if it will stay the same. :(
A lotta the fighters from Pride have already crossed over, Nogueira, Cro Cop, Rampage and a few more. What Dana white said is that Pride will remain an entity on it’s own but that their will be many more crossover fights.
Personally I enjoy pride much more than UFC. UFC is dominated by americans and thus more by greco roman wrestling, and college wrestling. Additionally the fan base is different from Pride which is largely staged in Asia. Pride in my opinion has much better fighters, and there is usually more stand up fighting which is more exciting to watch. Yet at the same time Pride also incoroporates some of the cool grappling of jiu jitsu. They have better rules as well.
As for the state of muay thai. I bet it will probably be pretty wishy washy after a while. Fairtex has essentially become the walmart of kickboxing selling a brand name. Their american gym doesn’t really have anymore fighters and some of their trainers seem apathetic at best.
Who knows what will happen though. It really takes a while for people to learn to watch a muay thai bout correctly as it requires some tactical, and strategic knowledge of the art. That knowledge takes time.
Fairtex gym doesn’t have anymore fighters????….I’m not sure how true that statement. I’m planning a trip to San Francisco this summer to go train at Fairtex and I’m looking forward to train wit Jongsannan (the Woodsman) who happens to be a great fighter (check the Jongsannan vs Sakmongkol fight for example) and I hear that Enn was a pretty established fighter, Ganyao needs no introduction however I am uncertain about his fighting history. I do nonetheless hope that they are not “empathetic”, if anyone has any further info I would really appreciate. I did wish that Fairtex would remain true to MT but then again, I’m not paying their bills…lol.
Muay Thai will never be as big in the US as it is in France, Holland, England, Japan and many other countries. I’m in the East Coast and good luck finding any traditional schools who will teach only MT and not (BJJ and MMA). People in the west and south are lucky.
MMA and BJJ has always had an aggressive image, just look at the gear manufactorers. It´s all “Bad Boy”, “Hotblood”, “Red Nose” (complete with pit bull) etc. A lot of people buy in to the sterotype and gets a tribal tattoo, goatee and always wear a beanie hat to go with an attitude picked up from the TUF show. I´ve trained and fought MMA but have returned to Muay Thai, the circus factor of MMA today was a big contribution to that. A lot of people in to MMA in Europe, Japan and the US are very decent and well educated about technique etc. but a lot of, primarily, American UFC fans come across as beer swilling idiots out to see a brawl and the macho shit image MMA carries keeps on attracting them.
Unfortunately, it’s true. My Muay Thai coach is now thinking of doing MMA because he can’t get Muay Thai fights any more. I think the only positive should be the elbow rule. It’s ridiculous that elbows are allowed in MMA bouts but not in Muay THai bouts. I thought the WBC taking on Muay Thai would help, but it hasn’t helped the visibility yet.
The “agro-less” PRIDE is basically a factor of Japananese society where they definitely put respect above most things. I’m not going to say that everyone here in the U.S. lacks respect but the differences in our cultures is significant. We need more fight cards like the one Neungsiam and the boys were on last year. Hard punches, kicks and beautiful elbows.
Josh.. Weems on the TUF Series is the perfect example of someone riding an establishe fighters’/camp’s coattail. Pulver said Weems showed up to train twice at Miletich’s gym now claims he fights or trained there.. hahaha
You gotta remeber how MMA was inroduced to the US. Anybody remember the first 5 UFC’s or so? They were mostly just freakshows, people went to see a Karate dude fight a Sumo wrestler. They just wanted to see people get pounded. Thought the rules have changed quited a bit since then and many of the fighters are classy atheltes, it still atracts a lot the same insecure fan who wants to see a bar brawl. Those are the guys that buy “No Fear” t-shirts, “Etreme Dorritos” and “Mountain Dew”. Those shirts aren’t made for us, they’re made for them. They out number us by a lot.
I am grateful to those TapOut, Thug Life wearing guys because if they werent buying the tickets we wouldn’t be seeing MMA or Muay Thai on tv..
agreed
Hmm.
I’ve been watching Pride since the first show, even been to Japan a few times too for some live ones.
I follow the UFC and Pride equally much, but I must say that I prefer Pride mainly because of the lack of trash talk and disrespecting fans (ie, booing and shouting). I don’t want to piss a whole country off, but from what I’ve experienced, both in martial arts and my professional life (working with many Americans), there is a clear difference in attitude – even between the average American and a European.
Anyway, to go back to the topic; I haven’t seen many Pride fans who are wearing those bad ass shirts and such. Also, I’ve seen a lot of older folk at the Pride events I’ve seen live compared to the UFC crowds.
Lastly, about the Fertitta brothers buying Pride, yeah, it is a sad day for MMA but if they keep it as a separate entity it just could turn our okay-ish. They are still going to hold three or so events in Japan, which is a good thing.
Cheers.
Petteri, as a born and raised European (France) who has spent the last 15 years in the U.S…..I totally agree with your statement about the difference attitude. Having that said, I think it’s understandable why MMA is bigger in America than it is in Europe and vice versa for Muay Thai. I wish Muay Thai was bigger over here as I’m sure some europeans probably wish that MMA was bigger over there. Oh well! C’est la vie!
One of the things that none of you guys have mentioned is the flood of morons and tough guys at BJJ and Muay Thai gyms nation-wide. For example one of my friends, (a purple belt in BJJ) was training with a tough guy asshole when the guy picked him up in the guard and slammed him on his head, nearly inuring my friend’s neck. He probably watched one of Quentin Jackson’s fights and thought that slamming was ok. I’ve also trained with a guy who nearly snapped my neck from yanking a choke so hard. Martial arts have alway attracted unsavory characters, but I am particularly worried about the beer-drinking psychopath that watches the UFC and ends up being my training partner the next day. A lot of these guys are to0 stupid to understand the nuances of BJJ or Muay Thai, so they resort to uncontrolled aggression. It’s a recipe for injury if you ask me. That being said, I have met some of the more mellow and easygoing guys at BJJ schools. Most of the BJJ guys in SOCAL are surfers and usually pretty laid-back and non-violent. I really think it sucks that normal people who want to train and learn a really cool combat sport have to deal with pieces of shit.
I’ve never really had the pleasure (?) of ending up with assholes at my gyms. Back in the day when I did Kyokushin, our trainer beat the shit outta one guy for saying he wanted to learn how to fight so he could beat people up on the street.
I wish that BJJ would be big here in Holland though :)
Petteri, I’ll trade with you anyday. I wish Muay Thai was big here in the U.S.
Muai Thai has to be the best fighting sports ever. I “Ong Bak” absolutely loved it. Great creativity and choreography in that movie.:D
MMA that allow ground fighting are booring.
I think if they promoted K1 in the states in would be huge. Much more exciting than alot of UFC fights. But in general most who don’t know wrestling, jiu-jitsu that well find the ground aspect of mma boring.