28 responses so far ↓

• 1 Chok Dee // Jul 16, 2008 at 7:50 am

  After reading this I’m so reminded again, how crappy my boxing actually is … :-\

• 2 manant // Jul 16, 2008 at 11:10 am

  theres a guy in our gym whose a boxer.He’s done it for years.But he’s a new convert to Muay Thai just becuse he’s so familiar and a bit bored with boxing.Iv been swapping rounds of focus mit boxing work for rounds of thai pad work with him.I was under no allusion as to how bad my hands were when I started but training with him has really opened my eyes to the sheer amount of technicl abiltity you’ve got to have just top be a bad boxer!!

  That said, I dont know why im surprised because its the excat same amount of tech nical expertise needed to be a bad Nak Muay, just a different training approach.

  Im trying to just work my hands utilising a muay thai stance, as this is what I want it for.Anyone got opinions on that?would it be better to work and learn boxing properly and then try to fuse it later?My feeling is this would be very time consuming and confusing as my habits are muay thai and firmly so.But I also realise I am never gona fully understand proper boxing like this.Opinions please?!!

• 3 rvafighter // Jul 16, 2008 at 4:28 pm

  Great entry, I recently started taking a western boxing class at my fitness gym to supplement my muay thai training.

  I was immediately called out as a kickboxer. My stance and defensive maneuvers were a dead giveaway. I think I even put a leg up to check a kick at one point, lol…

  You’re right about the difference in stance though, I’m having a lot of trouble getting through that class, as soon as I start to get tired I default back to MT technique. I am at least reassured that MT is becoming somewhat second-nature for me….

  I’ll try suggesting that the instructor to set me up in the eastern european style. Thanks for the tip.

• 4 Kreuang Jak // Jul 16, 2008 at 5:06 pm

  Nice topic Nop. I remember a previous post about boxing and how you say that boxing is somewhat harder than Muay Thai. I totally argee with you. I found out that I have been training at F&F for a little over a year now. But most of the time I’m training Muay Thai. Just recently I’ve been trying to improve my hands by boxing. It’s not an easy task. Like you I’m used to the square stance that Muay Thai supports. I guess a lot of us have the same problem.
  Any tips?

• 5 stinolatino // Jul 16, 2008 at 5:25 pm

  Very true.. I actually did boxing myself and went to kickbox..
  In boxing I was used to very difficult and lenghty combinations, then in kickbox very simple ones, hallelujah:d
  But however, after only a couple of weeks i could tell my punching power was getting much weaker, because you combine it with a lot of legwork in kickboxing, altough I still do a lot of dumbell training and other exercices to punch hard..

  But hey I just enjoy kickbox much better, with the kicking adding a lot of excitement and is more fun to watch, and a very good traditional boxer almost always loses to a good kickboxer/nak muay..:)

• 6 tong po // Jul 16, 2008 at 5:29 pm

  Muay Thai = more weapons to deal with
  Boxing = hands

  Since boxing deals with just the hands, which are much faster than kicks, one must fight at a very fast pace. Ducking, bobbing, weaving, slipping, footwork (these all could be used in MT too, but I find it to a far lesser extent), and the fluidity of boxing does go very well with a competent Nak Muay. Samart Payakaroon was a very good fighter and had extremely good hands. To get better at boxing, I feel one must train with a boxer (both sparring or pad holding).

• 7 MMCMuayThai // Jul 16, 2008 at 11:40 pm

  I actually box when im not doing muay thai. I find it helps me alot epecially with versatility and incorporating new techniques.

  I think boxing is very fundamental to muay thai and that people should invest more time into it.

  Alot of great Nak Muay’s train hard at boxing. I know Buakaw was training harder on his boxing until he got knocked out.

  He’s Still My Favorite Though

• 8 dennislugo // Jul 17, 2008 at 5:58 am

  i am fortunate to have such a good boxing coach because he knows i love muay thai over boxing but i lost a lot of weight because of him also changed my life around. his name is jose nolasco. old school cuban boxer who was an olympian. He actually beat up a few kickboxers back in the day. He has a thing for helping nak muays cause he’s developed hands for a lot of nak muays coming up. the funny thing is i didnt find him in a gym i found him down the street from my friends house cause we work out in his garage and we beat up the bag and he walked up and just started teaching us technique and it all took off from there. great cornerman who knows how to keep fresh and motivated. the greatest thing is he learned eastern european style in cuba thanks to the russians.

• 9 nopstar // Jul 17, 2008 at 7:27 am

  Dennislugo-

  That dude sounds badass. Cuban… enough said.

• 10 mattlucas // Jul 17, 2008 at 9:04 am

  Learning how to box, and or do muay thai is like learning a language. It is teaching your body a new vocabulary, a new way of speaking to the world, and to other people.

  Muay thai is a simple language, its grammatical structure is basic; subject–> verb—> object. I knee the opponent’s sternum. I block the opponeent’s kick. While grammatically simple everything in the muay thai vocabulary must be pronounced correctly. Your blocks must be at a correct angle, your kicks must explode, your stance must be so, your hands must cover your tender head. Yet simple style of muay thai when spoken between two fluent speakers creates an explosive language of violence.

  Boxing is a more complicated language. It is slam poetry. An endless verbage of vocabulary dealing with fisticuffs. The hero dodges, he slips, he weaves, he fires a left uppercut, a left bolo, a right overhand, spins out and jabs out. It is a fast paced rhyme. It is concussions, and fighting on one’s feet.

  The two sciences, spicy and sweet, compliment each other, but can create confusing tastes in one’s palate.

  Learning two languages at once, is difficult. Learning a different language than the one primarily often spoken is confusing. During my thai language classes I often think of my college german.

  thoughts,
  matt lucas

• 11 ShadyEskimo // Jul 17, 2008 at 9:50 am

  I always enjoyed Ali, Tyson or the Lightweights boxers like De La Hoya, Sugar Ray, Their Combination Skills always Blew my mind! Because when I tried to mimic it exactly, the Speed was Just UREAL. It was obvious this was practiced often. Boxers always impressed me, but I hate the Fact that legs and knees are banned.(Dont we all) But Andy Souwer must train traditional boxing along with Shootboxing, he looks so correct in his punching? And what about Yod, he has deadly hands but how would you Guys classify him Boxingwise, is he better than the other Thais, and How is he compared to Boxing champs?

• 12 SE // Jul 17, 2008 at 2:20 pm

  i vote matt lucas for new writer. that was great

• 13 tong po // Jul 17, 2008 at 5:35 pm

  Shady, I see that Yod has pretty good basic boxing skills- what stands out about him is that he is very powerful and accurate with the punches. I would put others above in terms of boxing- Anuwat has good fluid hands, Bovy too- old timers Samart, Dekker, Ballantine had very nice boxing skills. Of course some Max guys have very good hands- Masato, Kraus, and Souwer.

• 14 Mark // Jul 17, 2008 at 6:17 pm

  Thanks for sharing that comment, Matt - excellent insight. Combat is conversation. Self-expression is the goal.

  *wai*

• 15 nopstar // Jul 17, 2008 at 10:49 pm

  Matt-

  Well put!

  Mark-
  Welcome back.

• 16 dennislugo // Jul 18, 2008 at 4:56 am

  i love that word “bolo”. reminds me of high school when kids used to describe fights and how it went down. good news i just read actually is that rob kaman has moved down to south florida where i live to open a few gyms. its hard to find some good muay thai instruction down here.

• 17 nopstar // Jul 18, 2008 at 7:18 am

  Dennislugo-

  Hopefully they’re Muay Thai gyms… he’s a gotten a little strange in the past couple of years… Just look up Kaboa or Rob Kaman Kaboa

• 18 Gusnark // Jul 18, 2008 at 5:28 pm

  Yeah, it’s no secret that boxers have the strongest and fastest punch. They always had. It’s all about technique.
  That’s why I like dutch muay thai, they use hands more, consequently performing great punch+kick combinations. That’s also the reason why they dominate I believe.

• 19 TexMT // Jul 18, 2008 at 10:28 pm

  We have boxing days where we spar boxing only. Especially with people new to muay thai, it’s good to start someone off with limited weapons and ease them into the full 8 limbs. I’ve found that adding extra emphasis on my boxing has given me better movement and ring awareness.

• 20 spydaman // Jul 19, 2008 at 12:28 am

  Matt Lucas, beautifully written. However while most people here seems to think that Boxing is harder to master than Muay Thai I beg to differ.
  Matt, I don’t think there’s anythin simple about Muay Thai.
  - Other than the bob and weave (which is highly unadvised in Muay Thai) and the actual stance….I believe that everything else used in boxing is used also in MT. Sliping punches, covering up, throwing uppercuts, crosses, hooks, jabs, shovel hooks, straights to the body, liver shots, all of those are used in Muay Thai. Especially nowadays.

  - The language of Muay Thai has many more techniques to remember than Boxing.

  - The language of Muay Thai has many more Weapons than Boxing

  - The language of Muay Thai has many more areas to defend or attack than Boxing.

  - Going from Muay Thai to boxing asks for readjustments.

  - Going from Boxing to Muay Thai asks for a whole new world added to the one you already know.

  - It’s not just “I block the opponents kick”…it’s ” I just blocked the opponent kick and now I must respond quick because he might double up on that kick or step wit a knee or step wit a combo that may end wit a devastating elbow”.

  - When it all comes down to it…..”which one is harder to learn?” is just a matter of opinion….it’s just about who can bring the best argument to the table.

  btw, MattLucas, I love to read ur comments. Very inspiring.

• 21 spydaman // Jul 19, 2008 at 12:34 am

  Also….I have found out through the years of Nakmuays that plenty of fighters have done great wit limited knowledge of boxing. Nakmuays (in general) rarely throw lengthy combinations. All of the trainers I have had have told me that I need to throw more combinations but unless I watch K1 or Dutch Kickboxing or any other “non-Thai organizations” I don’t see it. What is your guys opinions. Muay Thai is from Thailand..so isnt that who we should be trying to fight like??

• 22 SE // Jul 20, 2008 at 5:39 pm

  if you like dutch style so much just take kickboxing and get yourself some spandex.

• 23 spydaman // Jul 20, 2008 at 6:33 pm

  SE, hahahahahahahahahahah!

• 24 Gusnark // Jul 20, 2008 at 7:21 pm

  SE, lmao.
  Try to imagine Yod in blue spandex. lol

  spydaman, as long as a fighter is smart, powerful, explosive and interesting to watch, to me it really doesn’t matter if he’s a Thai or Dutch of French…

• 25 spydaman // Jul 21, 2008 at 1:10 am

  Hey Gusnark….I think u may have missed my point.

• 26 Gusnark // Jul 21, 2008 at 6:25 pm

  Hi spydaman… then I don’t understand your question.
  I thought you were asking if we should fight like Thais do?
  As we know even Thai fighters fight differently from camp to camp. Some camps give focus more on boxing, some on knees, some on clinch and so on… Just look at Anuwat, his prime weapon is boxing and uses punch/kick combinations from time to time. On the other did you ever see Lamsongkram punch?
  Even in Thailand fighting vastly varies from camp to camp.
  So in the end we just want to see some results from fighters.

• 27 spydaman // Jul 21, 2008 at 9:36 pm

  Hey Gusnark, I guess u did understand what I was saying. I’m just wondering why you made the statement about u not caring whether a fighter is Thai, Dutch or french?….It made me feel as if u were sayin that I was against non thai fighters.

  My point is out here (in the US) most non-thai trainers I’ve had or seen or heard of put more emphasis on punch combinations (boxing) and their styles ends up looking more like Dutch Muay Thai.

  I see many great Thai fighters who’s boxing are very limited and while I agree that there are gyms (ie. Kaewsamgrit) where boxing is major…Most traditional thai fighters like Samkor, Lamsongkram, Wanlop, Sanchai, Chokdee, Numsaknoi and most top tier (Thai) fighters dont use their hands as much as most specialize in the clinch, kicking, elbows, knee attacks etc… So since most thais seems to focus in other areas more…shouldn’t it be taught the same way. Don’t get me twisted either…I didn’t say forget the punches (dat would be foolish!)…everyone punches and boxing is party of Muay Thai….I’m sayin teach somethin closer to traditional Muay Thai rather than Dutch or European Muay Thai.
  Hope u guys understand where I’m coming from…especially guys from the US and Europe.

• 28 Tibun // Jul 27, 2008 at 11:36 am

  Dany Bill was an excellent Muay Thai practicioner, in my opinion he was better than Ramon Dekkers. He fought like a Thai pretty much, and his technique was very nice, which you don’t see alot from westerners. Whereas, Dekkers fought like a Dutch (of course lol), but hopefully someone understands what i am talking about.

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