This is probably one of the coolest things I’ve read all month. Just as I was scheming and crafting my plan to market Muay Thai in Thailand, I come across this article in the Bangkok Post.
Maj Gen Surachet of the 4th infantry has stepped in with a plan to keep Muay Thai alive. He points to the fact that our art is very much a part of Thai heritage and has been practiced by commoners to kings. (Phra Chao Naresuan) The General feels as if the art is being lost and has a plan to help spur their interest in the art. His plan is to teach the art to the 6,000 soldiers under his command. The hope is that when these men are discharged they will then disseminate their knowledge and interest of Muay Thai into their communities.
“Maj-Gen Surachet said the army would play a part in sustaining the lifeline of Thai boxing. ”Muay Thai is a science and art that helped save our country throughout history,” he said.
The two-year project to teach the conscripts Muay Thai started in October last year. Maj-Gen Surachet hopes that the infantry will be the main force behind the sport’s preservation.
He said Muay Thai could actually complement military strategy as it simulates physical attacks on the battlefield.
”It is a healthy way to burn off our aggressive tendencies under a controlled and disciplined environment,” he added. The way soldiers prepare for a war or conflict is very similar to the way athletes prepare for Muay Thai. ”We do not only use just force but we use the brain as well,” he said.
The project also trains the boxing coaches while 20 commissioned officers and 60 non-commissioned officers will train 6,019 conscripts.”
I hope the General can pull it off… seems like a no brainer really. I don’t know anything about military training in Thailand. I’m not sure what martial arts they learn for hand to hand. Maybe it’s Lerdrit?
What do you think? Do you think it’ll be enough to get people interested? Any of you guys military? Did you find that your hand to hand combat training spurred your interest in Martial Arts?
36 responses so far ↓
1 pac // Jun 10, 2008 at 1:34 am
well, at least the general does something to muay thai.
2 mmcmx // Jun 10, 2008 at 3:48 am
Shouldn’t it be a no brainer? All the army guys should have at least basic martial arts knowledge from my point of view. Thai army with basic knowledge of thai boxing? A must if you ask me…
3 rvafighter // Jun 10, 2008 at 6:18 am
Here in the US, they teach basic martial arts to military recruits, but usually involves techniques that would be major fouls in the ring (groin strikes, throws, head stomps, aka “kill moves”, etc).
I don’t think that Muay Thai, under competition rules, would really keep a soldier alive on a battlefield on its own, but the pysical and mental benefits that Muay Thai training provides would absolutely be a great supplement to any military training regiment.
4 mmcmx // Jun 10, 2008 at 7:54 am
Man, obiouslly you won’t keep the rules in the batlefield! Jaja
I think that if a nak muay want’s to put a “kill move” on you he definetly knows how!
More than any “average Joe” that has been teached some “kill moves”!
5 ercan gurgoze // Jun 10, 2008 at 8:22 am
first of all,”muay thai”, “kungfu”,”karate” etc those disciplines are only “elemantary,individual fight disciplines and hasn’t any relation with “war,battel” and military concept…
however, the only positive thing might be; “keeping the soldiers fit in sportive manner”…the rest “to use mt in military frame” seems to be a the last thing to think about…
6 RedDragon // Jun 10, 2008 at 9:40 am
Quote “first of all,”muay thai”, “kungfu”,”karate” etc those disciplines are only “elemantary,individual fight disciplines and hasn’t any relation with “war,battel” and military concept…”
Except for the fact that most martial arts were forged on the battle fields for thousands of years using military strategy. Especially Muay Thai! Just because you put a more deadly weapon in someone’s hands does not make it irrelevant. Bad post, you’re a douche that knows nothing about the arts. Go read a book. Maybe “The Art of War” would be good for you…
7 RedDragon // Jun 10, 2008 at 9:43 am
Sorry for the angry post guys, that was just the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
8 Gio // Jun 10, 2008 at 9:46 am
Whether or not those martial arts were forged on the battle fields bears relatively little relevance to their usefulness in combat today, RedDragon. I think gurgoze has a point. These martial arts were developed under completely different wartime conditions with completely different technologies. They were formulated against spears and swords, not guns and grenades.
Secondly, karate, taekwon do, and muay thai have all become sport martial arts (kung fu to an extent as well). This means that they train you not to use illegal moves like groin strikes, eye gouges, etc. Just think about how vulnerable your groin is in a typical muay thai clinch.
I do think muay thai is an excellent way to condition and train soldiers physically and mentally, and it does teach useful combat skills for use in the army (everyone needs to know how to punch and cover up, regardless), but I think there’s a limit to their usefulness.
9 mmcmx // Jun 10, 2008 at 10:04 am
All the weapons have a limit in their usefulness Gio.
Saing that MT is just a sport and has nothing to do with war is plain stupid, it wa sinvented for war!
Would you say that gun shooting has become just a sport since you can do nothing agains a misile?
10 RedDragon // Jun 10, 2008 at 11:00 am
This is turning into modern art vs. martial art. Everything had its place in the order of things. Yes, most martial arts are now practiced as a sport vs. ancient combat, there for taking away a lot of the “death moves”. You could also say my firearm beats your hand to hand, my missile beats your fire arm, my atomic bomb beats your missile, fine. However you need to respect the history of where are arts come for and how they were developed. Not in a ring as a sport, but our ancestors bled and died for the “sport” that you watch. (Some don’t view the arts as a sport.)
Saying that martial arts has nothing to do with War, battle, or combat is ignorant. The preserved combative side of martial arts and or “death moves” are incorporated in the military’s special armed forces for a reason, to survive and overcome.
My only point is Respect. Know that you have the privilege of training in an art that came from thousands of years of war and survival. Don’t forget your roots.
11 SE // Jun 10, 2008 at 3:25 pm
even moves that professional MT fighters know can EASILY kill you.
12 TJ // Jun 10, 2008 at 8:19 pm
The competition in MT is good for anybody and would be good in unarmed combat. In armed combat they would have to tailor it to fight in full battle dress with helmet, flack vest and use a “no rules” approach.
Remember, in combat there are knives, bayonets, batons, e-tool, etc… and you may be fighting more than one person at a time.
Sport MT would be good for the warrior training, but it shouldn’t necessarily be the only thing taught to protect yourself in unarmed combat. Remember, this is not when you run into somone at a bar or in an alley, this is a battlefield and used as a last ditch effort because you weapon has run dry. You should be looking to improvised weapons and possibly disarming your enemy.
13 ercan gurgoze // Jun 11, 2008 at 2:03 am
red dragon,
i think that you are a child with huge dreams and watching too much kung fu films?..which unarmed style has been included in the “army system” in the history??..
-taekowndo.?…could be and formed just only after the “korean war” (1950’s) …peace time
-karate.(shuri te,naha te,okinawa te)?..only could have the chance to develop after the second world war…peace time
-muay thai.?..tahiland had spent a long time without war ..and mt could be formed only after the erection of “raja & lumpini” …his evolution and revolution is due to those stadiums where experiments coudl be gained due to real fights…
-boxing …did romans use “boxing “in the war,battle field?..never,just for animation in stadiums…
-savate?…used in the “french army?…”
all of them are “individual fight or self defence concepts” and hasn’t any relation with “war & battle “,briefly army concept…
war ,military is a “coordination,lojistic,strategy,common concept”…even the battles,wars in the far history the armed fights (spear,sword,arrows) are including those aspects …(for example “the romans,turcs,mongols” who were effective in the historical battles did not have any systems suc as “karate,taekwondo,vietvo dao or muay thai ,bando etc” …. individual unarmed systems could not find any place in the battle…
14 ercan gurgoze // Jun 11, 2008 at 2:20 am
even the “krabbi krabong systems” who wanted to be tied on “with muay thai” especialy after 2000’s has no relation with “muay thai” …
the only “unarmed system” which could place in the hsitorical armmees is just “wrestling” due to it’s special advantegous conditional perspective in crowded groups who attack by pressure,pull,push ,turn etc…and it has also found specialty especialy for “conditioning” of horseman troops who spend most of their times on horses…
15 mmcmx // Jun 11, 2008 at 8:34 am
Ercan:
Muay Thay or SEA boxing ( I don’t care wat it is just love it) Just watch the walls of Angkor and learn a bit about SEA history.
karate: it was developed like all the other japanese martial arts after the era of the samurais had ended and them strarted the thing to make a living from teaching! Samurais were the japanese profesional army! Proven in war! As were the ninjas wich were the spyes of the Shogun!
boxing just sucks
any of the martial arts was created as a sport from the begining.
16 mmcmx // Jun 11, 2008 at 8:56 am
meant none there…:D
17 RedDragon // Jun 11, 2008 at 9:59 am
Thank you for the compliment ercan gurgoze. I am child like in the sense that I can comprehend things beyond my own understanding, and absorb a concept that is pure without human error. Since you want to be schooled we can start here and keep it simple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts
It even gives you a brief overview of how martial arts are used in modern warfare.
Coming from a Muay Boran School I would expect more. If you choose to discredit martial arts and where they came from you only ruin it for yourself my friend.
18 JoeFromSoCal // Jun 11, 2008 at 10:05 am
Most important thing for a soldier these days is to shoot well and keep their keep their weapon running. But unarmed combat skills are still important for a soldier to learn. Why? Just in case. Your rifle can jam. Expecially in a desert, sandy, dirty environment. Up close with the enemy and your weapon jams. Use rifle as an improvised impact weapon.
19 JoeFromSoCal // Jun 11, 2008 at 10:08 am
Or transition to sidearm if you have one. I think that is what they are trained to do. Really interesting photo there^^^ If it’s current then looks like thai army still using the older M16A1 rifle. I’m sure their special forces get upgraded gear. I’ve heard Thai Special Forces trains with US forces.
20 RedDragon // Jun 11, 2008 at 10:42 am
Thank you for the compliment ercan gurgoze. I am child like in the sense that I can comprehend things beyond my own understanding, and absorb a concept that is pure without human error. Since you want to be schooled we can start here and keep it simple. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts It even gives you a brief overview of how martial arts are used in modern warfare.
Coming from a Muay Boran School I would expect more. If you choose to discredit martial arts and where they came from you only ruin it for yourself my friend.
21 SE // Jun 11, 2008 at 11:00 am
ercon gurgoze. you’re a fucking idiot.
22 TJ // Jun 11, 2008 at 11:10 am
Wow, this has quickly degenerated.
Remember, winning a fight over the internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, all participants are still retarded.
When did this forum become Sherdog?
23 ercan gurgoze // Jun 11, 2008 at 1:19 pm
red dragon,
you started the point with your agressive approach and you have also to face the consequences…
my dear ,i have a big knowledge,experience about military ,war,contra guerilla war…hence, i kindly request you to reconsider the theme …
could you explain me “how you will use muay thai in front of a wall of people coming with spears or swords and having shelters”?…
even in the historical fights where fire guns didn’t exists, the concept is likely as same as today:
-siklet centre (weight centre)
-coordination
-weapon power
-number of soldiers
-logistics
-manevour capability
-speed
-geographical status
etc…
(note: karate has nothing to do with samurais…it is an okinawan concept and the pioneers were only traders who travelled for trading mostly to china…the only discipline which has relation with samurais is “jiu jutsu” and it could only find space to be applied between samurai’s unarmed duells …since the samurais were half sheltered strikes,blows (atemi wazas) are worhtless and jiu jutsu improved in grappling,choking,breaking concept…however, jiu jutsu also couldn’t find any opportunity to be applied in the battle…just used as duell method between unarmed samurais who wanted to solve the problems without weapon…)
24 RedDragon // Jun 11, 2008 at 1:45 pm
TJ that was classic..LOL
25 RedDragon // Jun 11, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Ercan gurgoze what is your point? I dont think you have one. Half the things you listed are a big part of martial arts. I guess with your extensive knowledge you should go tell all the military’s special forces to stop training in martial arts because by your standards its useless. Oh and go tell wikipedia they dont know what there talking about. I guess while your at it go back in time and tell the Samurai the way of the sword is not an art and is useless in battle.
Im with TJ DEEEEDUHHH DEEEEEE ; )
26 SE // Jun 11, 2008 at 3:34 pm
ercon is a fucking moron. first of all every martial art was, in one way or another, derived from war. which is why countries have so much pride in them. they indeed evolved into a sport but in those days nobody fucking created a martial art from scratch just for sport. no shaolin monks did not train 90% of their lives for sport. nor did other warriors from ancient cultures.
per ercons last comment….
could you explain me “how you will use muay thai in front of a wall of people coming with spears or swords and having shelters”?…
you cant. thats not what any military that teaches their soldiers martial art expects their soldiers to do. fucking idiot. no one said it was a replacement for modern weapons or tactics. although highly unlikely there are many instances where it can come in handy wether it be from mental/physical conditioning or using the art itself in a hand 2 hand situation OR in situations where assassins do not have ANY guns.
next thing you know the moron is going to say
“hey! can martial arts block nuclear weapons?”
ercon you just spit out a whole lotta nuthing. i hope that you dont teach anyone.
and also, wiki is not the best source for info….
27 nopstar // Jun 11, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Play nice…
28 Muse // Jun 11, 2008 at 11:08 pm
….at any rate, the U.S. Army works closely in the SE region of the world with Thai and Australian forces so I’m sure this will help further spread muay thai on a global scale.
29 ercan gurgoze // Jun 12, 2008 at 12:56 am
when i see aggressive approaches i can’t help thinking whether they are child or just street boys.?!…..
“shaolin monks “?…warriors ?…who said this ?…in china there were many “kung fu systems” even in the past ,many kung fu masters ,schools…did they use it in the war?..battle?…just gossips …did you hear something about this ?..the task is not “modern weapons” ,we are talking just about the former times …and the mongols who did not have any “martial system” like “kung fu ,karate” etc could easily conquer china,burma,vietnam etc etc…
did shaolin monks help the chinese army with their “tiger,snake tecnics”?…or with their baton system…shaolin monks story is just based on the story to protect themselves against “bandits ” and “keeping fit and mediation,discipline” ..that’s all, rest is “asparagas”…
those gossips are so huge and there are many people who believe so that some people say that they have created “krav maga” during 1960’s during the modern war concept …if there are many who believe to this ,it is also very normal that many many can belive that “karate,tkd,muay thai etc” is rooted and have relations with the war…
hope you got the point?!…or continue just with imaginatory dreams that what we are doing has relation with “war,battles”…
regards,
30 nakmuaynate // Jun 12, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Whoa Whoa Whoa. I’m reading to much BS in these comments. Some of you guys need to read up on the history of Thai Boxing and the history of Thailand.
Thailand doesnt have a history of war? Muay Thai wasnt based on a military art?
First off, Muay Thai is a RING SPORT, a pretty recent one at that. MUAY BORAN is the wartime art developed long ago
Muay Boran was (few practitioners left) split up into four groups as follows.
Muay Korat, Muay Lopburi, Muay Chaiya, and Muay Pra Nakorn. All slightly different in fighting styles, fight stance, or what part of the body is mostly used.
Muay Boran is an art desgined to kill, no thigh kicks here. It even had small amounts of grappling which involved downknees to the spine, head, temple, axekicks etc. Muay Boran was taught to soldiers alongside Krabi Krabong, which included sword, knife and spear work, along with clinch grappling and pressure points.
Just alittle bit of history for you guys
31 ercan gurgoze // Jun 12, 2008 at 8:39 pm
first of all, i said only that “thailand has spent a long time without war”…i didn’t mention 300 years ago…when did thailand have last war?..as far as i am aware (except:1940 brief war with france 1940)from 1750 ’s there was no big war ?…
muay boran is just a new concept started to be constructed after the establishment of “mt federations”…and also it was not spelled not long ago (at least 20 years ago) …the systems “muay chaiyuth,lopburi (which is said to be the backbone of mt) etc were alwasy in the picture, but muay boran wasn’t known in the wordl…this is just a new concept after 1990’s and tried to be formulated by some groups …it is said that that “5 styles ” are inside it….
(furthermore,every unarmed self defence discipline having roots in history is designed to kill, later they have been softened and converted to sportive format…however, there isn’t any format in all of those styles againts weapon attaccks…krabbi krabong has nothing to do with “muay boran or muay thai ” …it was a complete different system…
however, today it seems so that some centres are trying to collect and anounce them as that they have relations between…this is not true…this is due to “creating a folcloric effect and collection of attention ” as many countries have also started to do the same …however, seems and sounds also not so bad…
regards,
32 SE // Jun 12, 2008 at 8:40 pm
without monks there would be no kung fu. and without muay boran there would be no muay thai.
33 Ronin // Jun 16, 2008 at 2:04 am
i have learned hand to hand combat in the army before and i find that it helps build a foundation for my muay thai now.
i just have to adjust myself accordingly and be enlightened enough to modify my past hand to hand techniques that aren’t applicable in muay thai.
all in all, it helps me adjust better.
34 IronTiger9 // Sep 20, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Ercan Gurgoze said that Krabi Krabong wanted to be tagged on with Muay Thai. Actually Muay Thai also known as Muay Thai Boran is a subset of Krabi Krabong used when the warrior was disarmed from his weapon. The sport muay is watered down with rules. The most lethal techniques have been removed and are hardly seen anymore unless you study say Krabi Krabong or Muay Chaiya.In order for the army to use Muay Thai effectively,it would have to be combined with their other weapons.(rifle, knives,bayonets,batons and improvised weapons from the surrounding environment.)
35 IronTiger9 // Sep 20, 2008 at 3:50 pm
In the sport version of Muay Thai you see a few punches, a few kicks, a few elbows and maybe a couple of knees.There are techniques that were used back in the old days that todays boxers have never seen or even know they exist. Not only were there punches,elbows,knees,shins and kicks, there
were strikes using the forearms,using the tips of the fingers and thumbs,head butts,striking with the shoulder,the palms,different parts of the feet including the tips of the toes.There were also different throws and takedowns, joint breaking and strangulations.Taught this way,it was a complete martial art.A person was taught to use different weapons such as the sword and staff.He was also taught how to avoid an attack by rolling away if on the ground and how to get up off the ground.
36 natb19 // Sep 21, 2008 at 7:11 am
IronTiger9: good comments.
The term Muay Boran ‘is’ a recent invention, only because there needed to be some way of distinguishing the older styles from the new sport style. Before the evolution of the sport, there was just Muay Thai (with the different styles) in the the same way as there is in kung fu with many different styles. The difference is, they distingush the new style (e.g. Sanda) from the older styles.
All of the old martial arts where born from people’s real experiences with real fighting - armed and unarmed. Before they were proved effective, they had ‘no name’, they were just other forms of fighting, or maybe some one’s own style that proved effective.
Ercan:
1) from my experience, Muay Chaiya teaches defense against knife attack etc. also, once you have a proper understanding of the style, it can be used with a (small amount of change) with variety of weapons.
2) In China, Thailand etc, the people who protected the people (e.g. monks in china) from thugs, marauders etc had real experience against single and multiple attackers.
3) Why do you think you’re more qualified to teach an effective form of self-defense than any of the amazing people in the past who created the modern styles? Muay Thai, Ju-Jitsu, Karate etc were all developed by extremely talented people who all had vast experience and deep understanding of fighting.
What makes you better?
You must log in to post a comment.