Recently I was sent a quote by Saenchai,
“When it comes to technique, work on it over and over again until you have mastered it. The most important thing for me is technical sparring, I always tried to do as much as possible throughout my career and think it should be the most important part of any ones training. You should try and spar with as many people as you can, spar in a controlled manner so you are learning not just using brute strength. When you get to a good level always look for fighters better than you to work with and learn from.”
This got me thinking of the different levels, as well as styles, of sparring I have experienced throughout the years, from technical to straight out fight sparring.
Training with JWP
Sparring in general can be a great thing that can greatly improve your overall gams as long as it’s done correctly. On the other hand when you don’t have the right people to work with it can counter productive as well as lead to unnecessary injuries. What I’ve noticed sparring here in the states as opposed to what I’ve experienced in Thailand, for the most part, is that people here spar as if they are fighting whereas in Thailand it is more about improveing technique and timing. I think there’s a few reason’s for this. One; in general a lot of ‘fighters’(in America), or people that train, seem to feel the need to prove something, ego’s get involved and a simple sparring match quickly escalates into a fight. Also there are way to many peole that don’t really fight, they just train, and the gym is their proving ground. These types of people are usually refered to as gym warriors. People that like to beat on weaker students but will never have what it takes to actually get in the ring and test themselves. Another reason I feel there is a lack of technical sparring is that not a lot people here in America have good technique, in general. It’s hard to have a good technical sparring session when you are the only one with proper technique and the person you are working with is seems to be emulating what they saw in the last toughman tournament.
Sparring with Stephen Bonnar
A lot of gyms here in the states, ,most these days, are a lot more greated toward MMA. You have all these guys, most of which came from wrestling or Jiu Jitsu, who are just now picking up the stand up game. Just like anything in fighting, it takes two, you need to have good training partners in order to get better. If you are the best in the gym it can be really hard to improve unless you really know how to work on specific things even without the help of better fighters. I deffinitley think that there is a time and place for full on, fight-like sparring. The problem is that a lot of these gyms make this a daily practice as opposed to a once a while kind of thing. I deffinitley think you should know what it’s like to take a hard shot, get rocked, know how to stay composed and continue fighting and the last place you wan’t to figure this out is in an actual fight. Hard sparring is the closest thing you can come to this without actual getting in the ring and finding out first hand.
Clinching with Sittichai
Now I’m the type of person that loves to get hit and loves hard sparring, especially when I first started. I love getting in there mixing it up, getting hit, and testing myself. But just like anything else you need to have balance. When I first started I sparred all the time and it was always full on, luckily I had other good technical guys to work with so it wasn’t just a brawl and I wasn’t getting too many unnessacary injuries. Finally after about 5 years I made it to Thailand for the first time. I was surprised at how little they actual sparred and when they did it was either technical sparring with no pads or it was boxing sparring where would would go almost full speed. I went in to that fight feeling pretty awkward cause I usually gadge how good of shape I am in by how I feel sparring. I almost felt off but I knew these were the best fighters in the world so they must be doing something right. At the same time it was probably the healthiest I had ever gone into a fight because I didn’t have any stupid injuries that you normally get from going too hard. So I’ve seen these two extremes, from full out sparring everyday to almost no hard sparring at all, only technique. I’d have to say that from me, personally the best answer is a balance of the two. I definitely think it’s good to go all out once in a while because it gives you the closest look at how an actual fight is going to be. But I do feel like there should be a lot more technical work if we as American fighters ever plan on competing at the higer levels.
working with Chaz
Now days I try and save the full out sparring for the end of the week, usually saturdays. During the week I stick to a much more technical approach, granted there are days when I do pick it up a bit but I feel that my level improves drastically when I have to be more technical rather than relying on power. The other good thing about technical sparring is that you can do it with whoever, regardless of weight difference, granted they are technically good as well.Obviously everyone is different and for some, sparring hard every single day will work for them. I think you just need to find the right balance between the two but I guarantee you will see a lot more imporvement if you slow things down a bit and really work on the technical aspect of the game.
What kind of sparring goes on at your gym or what have you noticed works best for you?
More about Kevin Ross
I was born in Reading, PA July 27th 1980 and spent the majority of my youth criss-crossing all over the United States. From Pennsylvania to New York, Georgia, Oregon, Colorado and then finally, in the summer of 94′, ending up in Vegas, where I have been ever since. I spent my teenage years not doing much other than partying day in and day out. I was already a full blown alcoholic by the time I turned 21. Luckily I came across Muay Thai when I was 16, seeing it on ESPN, although it did take me another 7 years to actually get started. I got into Muay Thai for one purpose, to be the best fighter that I could be. I gave up drinking two days before I stepped foot into the gym and never looked back, the rest is history.
November 19, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Great write up and very true. I’m lucky enough to have a very traditional Muay thai gym to train at (Tampa Muay Thai under Ray Cole) My trainer will straight up stop everything and be like “What are you guys doing”? “You look like crap, Lets make sure we are working proper technique” He will step in and start making corrections. We as a group are pretty good now with our sparring and I notice newer students are progressing much faster under this system. But there are still days some of the more advanced guys will go “hard” (60-70%) not to prove anything but more to test reflexes and timing at a higher speed because we are all fighters some amateur and some professional.”And its fun” :-).
November 19, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Kevin-
Great post, and want to take this opportunity to officially welcome you to the MMT community!
Sparring, I haven’t done enough of it in the past few months… very feeble. Where I am there is nightly “play” very light, very technical. We have official sparring night (Friday) which is about 90%.
I’ve did a post way back when, about checking your ego before getting in the ring. I prefer to spar against people who know they are better than me. I have complete faith in them that they aren’t going to break my ribs or my nose. I can relax, learn and have fun.
I didn’t enjoy going 90% but I recognize it’s good for me. Nice post! BTW: Just saw your new HL vid… great work . Makes me want to train!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MluFCmvgFQ
November 19, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Great post.
At the gym where I train we have light sparring in class and I enjoy it immensely. I always try to get people better than me so I can learn. This sparring is for the masses so there is no real worry about injuries as long as you get people who know what they are doing. We still get bumps and bruises but MT ain’t tiddly winks. I enjoy this the most because I am old, have a job, kids, wife and all the rest and can’t afford to miss work or anything else because of a broken nose or bruised ribs. This sparring is meant to score, not damage.
Afterward if people want to get more intense there is full on sparring, typically 50-80%. For our fighters in training, their sparring is varied in the typical three month camp leading up to a fight from 20% to 90%. Never full on, and the 90% sparring is rare.
November 19, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I found the quote in an interview Rob Cox did with Saenchai from 2005. I put it in my facebook and it spread from there.
http://www.muaythaionline.org/features/sanchaisorkingstarinterview.html
100% true. I am so happy you wrote this artical. Now maybe people in the US will listen.
Most of the time sparring in the US (although I have seen the same thing from of other westerners in Thailand) looks like a toughman fight with a few sloppy leg kicks…and it makes ugly clumsy fighters who can not adapt.
November 19, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Great post! I started out in a traditional gym (ultimate gym nyc) where we did a lot of technical sparring. I eventually moved to florida and started training at american top team where they most go all out when they spar (called blokeo).
IMO, technical, controlled sparring is the most effective way to spar. You get to try new things without getting hurt. The all out sparring is a good way to test your heart and your chin.
Great post, thanx.
November 19, 2010 at 5:15 pm
great article. nothing beats no pad technical sparring. a sharp eye is a great weapon to bring to the ring.
not too many highlights you see where the highlight-ee is getting whooped, very inspiring!
kevin – two things that seem to seperate you from most other nak muays (in my opinion) is your precision punching and your presence in the ring. thats not to say no other americans lack those qualities, you’re just very consistent with both of those qualities no matter what caliber of opponent your up against. is there anything that you do you to train either of those qualities or do they just seem to come naturally to you?
keep up the great work, bringing legitimacy to american muay thai is no easy task. you, as well as several others, are doing a great job while also providing a constant inspiration to the rest of us with big dreams.
November 19, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Agreed with the people who spar hard too often are usually the less skillful ones.
November 19, 2010 at 6:42 pm
I meant, I agree that the people who spar too hard are usually not very skillful.
November 19, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Great article and congrats on being the best American Muay Thai fighter IMO.. I’m not sure if you mentioned it but how often do you do technical sparring per week. I’m at Fight & Fitness in SF and we have a good crew of people there and sparring depends on what level person you’re sparring with. I agree with the less skill a person has the more force they use to compensate for that gap. That being said it only take a few rounds with those guys to ‘put them back on track’ and calm them down. we’ll go hard from time to time but it’s not a daily thing so it’s not a gym full of the walking wounded. I find it helpful to talk to the person first and make it clear that it’s technical sparring and ask if they want to work on anything in particular.. Welcome again and look forward to seeing more of your articles and more of your fights. best of Luck.
November 19, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Really enjoyed the article. Im from and also train in reno with a friend of yours Casey Balkenbush at Nevada Muay Thai. I acctually came down to Vegas a while back with casey an got to meet an train with you. As far as the sparring go’s at the gym it is very rare that we will spar hard. i would say it happens about once a month. I woould like to know if thats not enough hard sparring. The rest of the time its hard bag work, drilling, and pad work. We do spar at the end of all classes but its sparring geared toward a specific area or very light contact sparring. Should we be getting more hard sparring in?
November 19, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Thanks everybody, I appreciate the input!
@ Jake, thanks, I guess for the most part it would come naturally, well just saying I don’t train to have a presence in the ring you know. I think over the years it has developed but I think that it is something that just comes to me naturally. I’ve always felt very comfortable in fights, never have had to deal with nerves(not saying I don0t have any), more times than not I actually have to psyche myself up because I am way too calm going into a fight! As for the punching I think that just comes from my original love of boxing, even before I found muay thai I had always loved watching boxing fights and from the beginning of my career study them constantly. It took me a long time to actually get comfortable and good at throwing kicks. My first few fights were pretty much boxing with the occasional kick added in.
@ mopey000 as I said in the article, I feel you just have to find what works best for you. I don’t think that there is any set number or any exact way to do anything in this sport, let alone sparring. I think over the years you don’t need to do as much as you do in the beginning. You know what it’s like to be in the ring, you know what it’s like to have someone trying to take your head off. I usually stick to the harder sparring on saturday’s but then again it just depends who I’m training with. Chaz, Shawn and I have been training together long enough to where we can spar at about 75% even with no pads and come out without any injuries.
November 19, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Thank you very much for the response. I hope to make it back down to Vegas here soon with Casey to train again. I was saposed to fight on Nicks next card but we herd it got moved back to Febuary.
November 20, 2010 at 1:07 am
my gym was filled with fucking gym warriors…it was so gay.
November 20, 2010 at 2:30 am
Great advice kevin. . Some days don`t mind starting off technical and moving up. I am stuck up though, I only spar with few folks other than our trainers, I just fear stupid injuries from folks who may not know better (as i am quite capable if giving myself stupid injuries without any added help). I always find it a rewarding experience to tech spar with those stronger and better than me who care about helping me learn. I always leave the gym feeling better about my session and the brothers I train with. That being said it is unbelievable how Thais can slow down the intensity yet be so fast and with enough force to let you know u got beat but not hurt nor injure you. its enough to keep your motivation up, but not too much to kill your fire. Attachai is with us and a few of us get clowned by him constantly but its always fun and you always come away with something after light technic sparring with him….if you survive=)
November 20, 2010 at 3:39 am
For me it was always a gift when I could find Partners that really do just want to work technique , it leads to experimentation, more often now I have such partners. On the flip side thought to avoid the sense of being overwhelmed some times I agree that hard sparring is neccasary, I like it to fluctuate depending on how soon competition is.
On the subject of sparring , how do you guys feel about ocassional handicaps (ex: one person can only use hands/inside fight , the other outside/kick ) and emulating/impersonating opponents? for me I feel it helps combat stagnation especially if you’re extremely familiar with your sparring partners and need to work other tools or if you need to train against a particular style. Figured since many eyes on this board now would be a great time to get input on it.
November 20, 2010 at 6:49 am
Very nice article. I will agree with you 100%. When i trained in Thailand most guys there do what i call play spar. Light, technical, sparring sessions where you work on defense, offense, and having fun.
Most people here in the states, train with a ego, or some even super egos. They always try to show off, and prove that they are tough and stronger.
Perfect, example. This guy at our gym spars all the time. Most of the time he is going 100%, even knocked out a young kid, and girl once (no kidding). This guy to me was a jerk. Then one day, I finally approached him and asked”are you training for a fight, because i see you spar all the time”. He gives me the old “my wife won’t let me fight, and i fight all the time at the bar” speech.
This jerk, will never fight someone his size but instead he picks on smaller, weaker students. So, I asked him to spar with me after class. I tell you after the session i did not see him for one month. He avoids me all the time now.
Other times, its the poor knowledge of the trainers. Why let your students spar, when they don’t even have down the proper techniques? One gym trainer, once offered to pay us $20 if we bloodied up our partners nose… no kidding..
I no longer spar with people with egos. I only technical spar with people who fight, and know how to spar, not random bar brawling, kid beating, ego stroking, jerks… There’s the old saying, why go 100%. If you go 100% you might as well fight.. People that spar 100% just fear they will lose in front of an audience, so instead they try in private, because if they lose no one will see.
November 20, 2010 at 7:23 am
I have to say, 99% of the time i really dislike sparring in America. When I am in Thailand, if we want to spar hard.. we announce it and meet at an appropriate level. Other then that, it is like you say.. More of a controlled chess game. To see how many techniques you can use and how you can apply them.
In America i see the same thing every time i spar with someone I havent before. We start, I have hopes of it being controlled and respectful. Then I land a punch, kick, or knee that he doesnt like (even at 15 percent), And they dont know how to react or stay cool and start going apeshit. It then went from light sparring to a full on fight. I think in america you just get forced to spar with so many people that are into this sport for the wrong reasons, or havent cared to look into muay thai past the fighting aspect to find out the other important parts of it.
November 21, 2010 at 1:55 am
Excellent post Huggy Bear.
I love sparring but no one at my gym really spars correctly.Like it was said here earlier, it turns into a machofest after a good blow is landed.The only way I can prove my technique is sound is to get in the ring and try out my footwork with a “live” opponent who is more than a stationary bag.But I constantly have to stop my sparring partners and remind them to take it easy and relax, than a minute later I get a Full on kick to my head again.
This week Imma try to convince a few of the guys to do light technical sparing with me.
November 21, 2010 at 2:41 am
Try it with no shin pads and with bag gloves on. That helps people remember to use technique and control. Or maybe they will just blast you anyways…lol
November 21, 2010 at 4:37 pm
how are “good shots” occurring in light/technical sparring, and then being escalated by gym warriors? it takes two to make a poor sparring session.
November 21, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@prettysweer
Well, even if you’re highly skilled and trying to work on technique, you’re not just gonna let some guy go apeshit and beat on you because he’s frustrated about you landing a few light jabs and teeps on him.
Yes, guys alot of go nuts when they get hit cleanly and can’t do nothing about it, even if it’s at 10%.
I suppose you could stop the session and tell the guy to calm down, but who does that in the middle of the round, so yes it escalates, it takes ONE douchebag to make a poor sparring session.
November 21, 2010 at 8:35 pm
@ prettysweer.
Agreed with what Tibun stated above, it only takes one un-trained partner to make the session go bad or as you call “ape shit”.
Most people who never trained in Thailand portray MuayThai is tough, hard, ape shit fighting. But in reality, it’s more about very nice technique which in turn brings strong proper power.
After sparring with many people over the years, I have come to the conclusion that if both partners are not gaining/learning anything from the session then its a waste of time.
A trainer once told me in thailand: You must learn how to give and how to properly receive. You have to work on both offense, and proper defense, evasion technique. Most people in America work too much on offense, and have little to poor defense. You also have to let your partner hit you so he gains some techniques as well, instead of just you doing all the sending.
Remember guys, its training. You are there to learn. If you want something else, go do a real match… enough said
November 21, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Agreed with above. We dont mean a “good shot” as in hitting hard, but in showing that you landed a strike on the desired target. Even if you throw something as light as possible. If it gets past the gaurd of some tough meathead and lands on his chin, It has been enough for some to try to one up and go hard.
It definitely only takes one to make a sparring session go south.
November 22, 2010 at 4:51 am
Great post and lots of insightful comments too. I consider myself a novice and have only trained at 2 gyms over a few years, so my exposure to sparring environments is limited. I’ve never been 100% sure what is considered proper sparring and my experience at my current gym has baffled me sometimes. I’ve sparred with experienced people who go at a light relaxed pace so both of us can actually focus on technique and not maul each other. Most of the time I just end up with people who throw boxing combos and tap me with their leg. I had one “experienced” guy yell at me to hit him harder and got visibly agitated/frustrated that I wanted to go easy. Glad to hear that I’m not crazy for wanting to relax and focus on technique rather than be someone’s mobile punching bag.
November 22, 2010 at 7:59 am
unfortunately this has a lot to do with trainers as well. i find thai trainers first recommend you ‘play around’ without explaining in detail what exact;y that shit means…..then when they people go crazy and ask for harder sparring with pads they usually stop giving a fuck how you spar and let you do what you want. i think thats how i fucked up with my trainer. when i started i admit i had in my mind sparring was always going to be hard and brutal. had i known what i known now i would have neevr requested a harder sparring session from my trainer. if i only knew about the “SHUT UP AND DO” rule from the beginning or there was no language gap im 100% sure my training would have advanced ten fold.
November 22, 2010 at 8:01 am
i guess this is really the main explanation of why american nak muays dont do as well internationally as others. even with having to keep jobs i think americans would be much much much better if they didnt spar like fucksticks all the time.
November 22, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I guess the philosophy 100% sparring folks go with is: “the real experience will develop the technique”; It’s completely true but at the same time it’s like doing the exam without having done the course.
November 26, 2010 at 10:37 am
Here is a good example; Its of coach Walter trying to the thai-style “play sparring”…maybe because of their size and weight, maybe because the partner isn’t as advanced, but it just doesn’t look that elegant or fluid as what we all want to see…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsC7UL4qpWU
November 26, 2010 at 11:39 pm
I used to wait until I saw how hard the other person was going, and then this guy punched me in the eye so hard that I went cross eyed. Didn’t go away after the first 30 seconds, so I said that I couldn’t continue. Of course, I got yelled at.
That’s the last time that I trained there.
All it takes is one douche (that thinks he’s humble) to ruin a good thing.