I thought since we were having a lively debate about MMA and Nak Muay’s it would be an appropriate time to share this clip with you.
Many thanks to Muse for passing this one along. This will probably be one of the very rare times I post an MMA clip on this site. I’m posting it because this clip features to accomplished Nak Muay’s. Berneung Sakhomsin (now at tiger muay thai) is a former WMC champion and SingJok Legacy Gym is a former Lumpini stadium champ, currently with Ole Laursen.
I read that both these Nak Muay’s made their MMA debuts earlier this year. There are a few Thai Nak Muays in the states who are slowly transitioning into MMA. It pains me to see them crossing over but these are my own personal hang-ups. I need to get over it. With a lot of the Thai Nak Muay’s living in the States it’s about the only fights they can get. MT in the States isn’t half as popular as MT in Europe, fight purses are generally small and match making for them is a bitch. It makes financial sense for them to cross over.
Watching this clip the only thought I had was how undignified? I know I sound like a complete twat… but it’s honestly how I feel. It’s hard for me to articulate, maybe it’s this particular video and the location, but I felt like these guys were on the set of some Van Damme movie.
I know these guys took up fighting from an early age to make a living. They get paid to fight. I understand that, I also understand that there’s life after MT that this is something they can get into to make even more money but for some unexplainable reason, I feel like this is beneath them. I know I’m not articulating this very well, but am I alone? Does anyone else feel like this is “beneath” them? I can just chalk it up to me being a MT snob? Maybe it’s because I have a profound respect for these Nak Muays and all that they’ve acomplished. Maybe I feel it’s a shame that those accomplishments aren’t financially rewarding enough.
I know in the previous post there was some debate over the striking skills of MMA fighters in general. This is what you get when you throw in two very good strikers. So what do you think?
February 9, 2009 at 9:20 am
I agree with you whole heartedly Nop. But you know one of my biggest fears is that MMA will become big in Thailand. What a nightmare. And again, I have no problem with MMA, I actually enjoy it sometimes. I used to train MMA and I have an MMA match under my belt. However, it seems sad when you get great nak muays that resort to MMA. For example, Coban is in with an MMA gym, it’s the only way he can get students!! When he first came to my area I immediately went to train with him. I was in there with about 20 MMAers. They were amazed that I drove an hour to train with him. They had no idea who he was (as far as Muay Thai goes).
I guess personally I’m tired of MMA. People find out I fight and I have to explain to them, “No, I don’t fight MMA.” I explain to them about Muay Thai and they just ask “What’s that?” It’s even seeped ito my gym, one of the girls was getting ready for a match, the coach said that he thought she was fighting someone from an MMA gym and she freaked out, thinking that MMA fighters were “more hardcore,” she was an idiot anyhow…
I remember watching UFC number 1 and saying, wow, I hope this gets popular…ugh, me and my big mouth.
February 9, 2009 at 10:54 am
i am missing the hole spirit in mma, i associate it with “two guys beating each other up and the stupid crowd goes crazy”
muay thai is more of a lifestyle but as far as money is concerned mma attracts the masses and for me there’s no heart in it.
February 9, 2009 at 11:03 am
I’m pretty biased on this, as I love Tiger Muay Thai and I’m a Berneung fan-boy (he was one of my coaches when I was over there last June).
So with that in mind …
Nop, you’ve gotta remember the context of this fight … it was a BBQ, not a stadium event. It looked fine for a BBQ :)
And as far as it being beneath them … I think you missed the more important lesson of the fight. Both fighters (despite their excellent credentials as stand up fighters) showed that they have a lot to learn about fighting in the cage.
And I’m not just talking about their grappling. I’m talking about their striking. People can criticize MMA strikers all they want, but if they think either of those fighters (despite their ring-proven muay thai striking ability) would be able to defeat UFC fighters in standup in a cage … they’re fooling themselves. And don’t get me wrong, I think Berneung is a beast AT MUAY THAI, but he’s got a fair way to go before his MMA stand-up is ready for serious MMA competition.
I actually think Tiger Muay Thai offers the perfect example of how both Muay Thai and MMA can exist together. One of the dudes I train with (in Tasmania) went to Tiger to train MMA, whereas I went there to train Muay Thai. The MMA dudes get on fine with the Muay Thai dudes and vice versa. There’s no animosity between the two groups at all.
At home, as well as my normal Muay Thai sparring partners, I go and spar two MMA dudes … they’ve shown me nothing but respect and we’ve learned things about one another’s sport. I’ve yet to hear an MMA fighter bad mouth Muay Thai.
And btw … I seem to be the one standing up for MMA, but I just want to make it clear … I think Muay Thai is the greatest sport on the planet … I live the Muay Thai lifestyle as best I can, and I love it. So I’m no MMA wanna-be. I even prefer boxing more than MMA (well, good boxing).
I’m pleased Berneung is wanting to explore MMA … good for him :) Nop, you seem to be saying that just because Berneung has achieved so much in Muay Thai, he shouldn’t be able to try new things. The dude loves to fight … let him fight. I hope he becomes the best MMA fighter he can be and has a great time doing it :)
Cheers!
February 9, 2009 at 11:14 am
FightGeek-
You’re right… I admit these are my own hang ups. Berneung does like to fight, and this is a new avenue for him. I guess my experience has been that most of the Nak Muay’s I know are doing it because they have to.
February 9, 2009 at 11:41 am
Fight Geek, you say both of these fighters wouldnt beat a decent MMA standup fighter in a cage. Why not? Im not suggesting your wrong by the way, I know next to nothing about MMA, I just cant see what is so different apart from the obvious need to avoid takedowns!
February 9, 2009 at 11:47 am
In Brazil the “MMA fever” started long ago, and Nop if you think this looks like a movie set you should dig some old Brazilian “vale tudo” fights.
But what I want talk here is the consequence of the MMA fever in the martial arts, especially MT. Most of the Brazilian MT gyms focus in MT for MMA, which is pretty different from traditional, or real, MT. It’s really hard to find a MT teacher that would a proper clinch or knee, every technique is being adapted to MMA.
Another issue is the vibe of a MMA gym, which is completely the opposite of a MT gym. The macho man attitute and the overcompetition really piss me of.
I love to wacht MMA, I’m glad that the sports is growing and maturing, but it kind of scares me that somehow we may end up with one big mud ball of figthing techniques instead of multiples styles of martial arts.
February 9, 2009 at 11:57 am
Nop can you please tell me the result of the Seanchai Liam fight on saturday i couldn’t make it.
Cheers
H
February 9, 2009 at 12:25 pm
from what ive seen i think mma is for rednecks,
jack of all trades… master of none.
H
February 9, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I disagree with fight geek, I think that most real and experience MT fighters would destroy and MMA fighter if they were to stand and strike. I don’t think that the cage makes a significant difference.
February 9, 2009 at 7:07 pm
It’s all about the benjamins baby!
And to H- Saenchai won on points
February 9, 2009 at 9:01 pm
I have trained Muay Thai for years. I love Muay Thai and always will. But the spirit of martial arts is not defending your discipline and attacking all other disciplines, even if that discipline happens to be called “MMA”. Martial arts (to me, anyway), is about honing your craft to the best of your abilities and respecting other people. If a Nak Muay decides it’s time to learn a new discipline like BJJ or wrestling so that he can fight in MMA, how is that a bad thing? Who says he should only learn one art? If anything, I respect the guy for giving up his comfort zone and starting all over again.
Speaking of BJJ, I’ve always been struck by how territorial and catty that world can be (No-Gi versus Gi, Rubber Guard vs. Gracie BJJ, etc.). After reading a bunch of the recent comments on this site about how certain people (meatheads, UFC fans, weekend warriors, etc.) wouldn’t be welcome in a Muay Thai gym…man, all I can say is that exclusion is NOT what martial arts is about. It’s about welcoming new students and showing them that humility, discipline, and patience is the formula for success. Why not take it upon yourself, as a student of Muay Thai, to show them the correct way?
If you want to keep Muay Thai a secret only for the few that you deem worthy, it will never gain the larger audience that all of us want for our sport.
Just my two cents.
February 9, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Weird to see Nak Muays in the Cage!!! But if they want to do it because they love fighting, Cool. But if its because they want a higher lifequality, for them and their family, I would say its a high price to pay! I understand that its a hard life for a Nak Muay, and the Money isnt shit, compared to a pro Football player like Ronaldinho! I mean Saenchai is the Ronaldinho of Muay Thai, and he is poor comparede to any super pro athlete in the west! Is sad, and I feel you Nop! No disrespect for MMA, as I said if they are doing it cause they want to then Yeah, but out of neccessity, Sad! Were their accomplishments made in a “Rich” sport, they would have been filthy rich by now, and one would wonder if they would end their Carrer earlier??
February 9, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I too agree with you wholeheartedly Nopstar. I too hold Nak Muays in very high regard. Maybe too high, if there can be such a thing. Seeing the young ones fight in Thailand and wanting the win. REALLY wanting it, REALLY wanting to put more food on the table. That is some serious commitment. Then to see these guys in a cage because it is a better financial option is sad. In my not-so-humble opinion Muay Thai is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but like soooooo many other things, the average person just doesn’t get it.
BTW, thanks for the site and all your efforts and comments. It gives a Nak Muay wannabe surrounded by McDojos like me a reminder of some of the good stuff.
February 9, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I can sort of relate to how you feel Nop…it’s hard for me to see an established Muay Thai fighter going MMA. Makes me cringe almost. However, we’ve got to take the good that comes with it.
Just the other day I had someone come to my MT class based only on the fact he had heard it mentioned in the UFC. But he didn’t even know what it was or where it was from (he thought it was Brazilian). Now he knows. If some Thais can make the transition properly (which will take a lot of time…), then maybe we wouldn’t have so many people wondering if MT is a type of food.
It’s true, if a massive amount of Thais start converting to MMA, then MT as a whole can suffer. But I highly doubt that will be the case. We’ll probably see a few here and there (Malaipet’s already tried), and even if they aren’t successful it may open an outsider’s eyes to real MT.
The way I see it, with the (very limited and often terribly inaccurate) exposure MMA is giving MT, it’s up the the MT community to promote itself and keep this sport from dying. Whether it’s the WMC, WBC, WMF or whatever, they need to be doing whatever they can to make a big noise over MT. The Contender was a step in the right direction, but they need to keep going and improving on it.
On another note…these fighters may not know the cage well, but if someone is stupid enough to stand with them, they’d probably win. Of course, I doubt there are many MMA fighters stupid enough to stand with the likes of Berneung
February 10, 2009 at 1:43 am
Hey, thought I would throw my two cents in as I think I have a somewhat unique perspective from the other posters here. I am a big fan of MMA and actually started training in MT largely because I saw it being utilized there. I have wanted to watch MT ever since but really didn’t know where to look here in the U.S. Most of my experience watching MT comes from the contender and this site (For which I must heartily thank you. You have a great site here).
Anyways, I can easily understand how seeing guys in Tapout shirts that read “American, Arrogant, and in Yo Face” would lead you to believe MMA fans are a group of knuckle- dragging drunks looking for blood. I personally want to vomit whenever I see the “Tapout crew” on tv. However, I think you may be guilty of overgeneralization. While there are a lot of these kinds of people who at least enjoy acting like they know MMA, I don’t believe this is due to anything inherent in the sport. In fact, I would argue that there are more of this type of people posing as MMA fans than as MT fans simply because of MMA’s widespread popularity. If we woke up tomorrow and MT was the most popular sport on the planet, I have a feeling it would have more than its fair share of douchebags. And while MMA obviously does not have the tradition and culture that MT has, I believe that it is the fighters who determine the value of the match. When two competitors conduct themselves with respect and humility, there is something pure and honorable about the sport of fighting, whether it be MT, MMA, boxing, or anything else. Anyways, thank you again for the great site, I really enjoy seeing world class MT here.
February 10, 2009 at 4:57 am
Eh, its probably the WWE fanboys that turn off a some of us to MMA. I do follow it a bit, but sometimes I just can’t stand the attitude of some of the fans.
February 10, 2009 at 8:56 am
Now have many amateur mma match in Thailand like this
Highlight Naksu 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4B8ld4WrjU
i train in Muay Thai Chaiya Style and i have see picture and video about Muay Kad chuek fight in 90 years ago i think it same mma today.
which had been forgotten since the banning of fighting with rope, or hem binding as we called Muay Kad-Chuek. Many techniques, unique to Muay Thai, have been lost due to the imposing of rules adapted from western boxing.
Muay Thai Chaiya, not only utilizes fists, feet, knees, and elbows as we commonly see in the main stream Muay Thai, but also uses the forgotten elements of throwing, pressing, grabbling or clinching and joint breaking (Toom-Tup-Jub-Huk), they are no less dangerous than the throwing and joint locking of other martial arts. There are other sets of techniques with names that rhyme and contain deep meanings. They are to lure, to mislead, to elude, to avoid, to deceive, and to tease (Lor-Lork-Lop-Leek-Lorklor-Lorlen), or to hug, to squeeze, to swing the opponent from side to side, and to cast or throw the opponent down (Kod-Rad-Fad-Wieng). These are the techniques for inside fighting, that we no longer see in today’s Muay Thai. Even the way to fall, to get up, to roll on the ground, and to crawl (Lom-Look-Klook-Klan), which deal with proper way of rolling on the ground and falling so the practitioners wouldn’t get hurt.
So, an exponent of the old and traditional Muay Thai, such as Muay Thai Chaiya, does not limit oneself to only one-dimensional fighting of stand up strike. If the fight takes one down to the ground, one still has to be able to fight effectively. Since the old traditional Muay Thai was created for the engagement in battlefields, being able to engage with several opponents at the same time has made Muay Thai Chaiya so formidable.
i like mma match becuase it can use full techniques of muay thai not like Sport Muay thai today.
Now have lot of Muay Thai Champion Train for mma match because he know when he grow in 30 up he cannot fight in muay thai match same now day.
In last year and this month i have go to fairtex pattaya and train Muay chaiya grappling past to Yodseankai , Attachai , Nareuphol for fight to mma too.
you will see some picture in this
http://muaychaiya.hi5.com
Sorry for my English gamma i not strong in English.
February 10, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Many apologies for my muay chaiya brother’s cut and paste rant about muay chaiya.
Although I do agree with him about muay chaiya being more suited to mma than standard MT, again this comes down to an argument about styles, but should really be about individual fighters. I would love to see a guy trained in muay chaiya in pro mma, it would be pretty cool, but until we do, it’s all dust in the wind ;)
Enough deviation, back to the subject on this post…
It is weird watching two MT guys in the ring… strange how the style differs that much from mma that it looks so alien in a cage :-S
I find it interesting how the whole UFC thing has given the term MMA such a bad rep. Wasn’t it Bruce Lee who first brought this concept to the world, enlightening us in cross discipline training and breaking down the barriers between styles?
I don’t know about you, but I get worried about tradition and detail of styles that are hundreds of years old being lost, by the sanitizing effect that ‘mma’ has seemed to have adopted. But then again, I do think that a lot of the mma pros HAVE trained in BJJ, and something like MT, maybe not in Brazil or Thailand, but that must count for something?
As Fight Geek mentioned at Tiger MT there seems to be a good crossover happening, with open choice of what you learn from either quality MT coaches, or from good grappling guys. I haven’t seen much tradition taught in the grappling tho, which is a little worrying, as the tradition is part of what makes martial arts ‘arts’, teaching more than just how to break and maim.
I didn’t mean to write this much, so I’ll shut up now! :)
February 11, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I feel with you as well
Muay Thai is a true art form and a dedicate and MMA just belittles it just for the simple fact of how commercialized and really how overrated it is
Im a true Nak Muay here in the states and it is hard to find any Muay Thai matches or anything so i have seen some Nak Muays resort to MMA and i think it is sad and just disrespectfully to the sport of Muay Thai
But yet i think it is time for more Thais to prolly step in the cage
To many of these MMA fighters think they are great and are top notch yet i have fought and trained with a bunch and they never are on a true Muay Thai fighters level
I count tell you how many MMA fighters i have clocked just because they dont even know how to block a head kick
And i know Malapiet tore that dude up when he had his last MMA fight
Although i think that MT fighters shouldnt be crossing over i would also love to see some MT fighters take over UFC and show americas why they are still lacking behind when it comes to martial arts
February 11, 2009 at 10:41 pm
FTR all stand up action, nothing better.
February 13, 2009 at 11:17 am
Hey Ting Tong,
Sorry for taking so long to respond, I’ve been busy. First up,I want to make it clear I don’t claim to be an MMA expert. I’m sure there are other MMA readers of this site who are more qualified to answer your question, but I’ll have a crack …
Before I do that, I just want to give you an analogy from another, more popular, sport to help you understand what I’m talking about. Why is it that there are so many grass court tennis champions who fail on clay? And conversely, why are there so many clay court players that fail on grass? Think about it … They’re using the same rackets, the same ball, the court is the same size, the net is the same height, the scoring is the same etc. There’s only ONE obvious difference … what the court is made of. The smallest of changes can turn a dominant grass court champion into a dude that doesn’t even make the finals on clay. The ball doesn’t move the same off the court and that means players must make minor changes to technique, shot selection and strategy. And history shows that most players are simply unable to make these changes! And when someone comes along who can win on both, he’s considered a VERY special player.
Now lets take that example to our MMA and Muay Thai discussion …
You suggest that the only thing a Muay Thai dude has to do to be successful in MMA standup is avoid takedowns … that is one factor, but it involves a lot more than perhaps you might think …
1. To avoid takedowns you must adapt ‘shot selection’ … In Muay Thai they look to throw around 70% of kicks to the body (incidentally, I actually think it was Berneung who told me that!). Now I don’t know the optimal percentages associated with body kicks (round kicks and teeps) in MMA, but I can guarantee you it’s WAY lower than that. As a general strategy, utilizing a high percentage body kicking game will lead to problems in MMA (getting taken down).
Now if you look at the video, you’ll notice both fighters were keen to get into the body kick groove … This is one reason why both these fighters would have serious problem with their stand up against a quality MMA fighter. And also you’ll notice that both use the standard muay thai defense to a round kick (either stand their ground or move backwards). A quality MMA dude’s standard response to a kick higher than the thigh is to penetrate into their opponent …. taking advantage of their opponent being on one leg and going for the takedown.
2. ‘Technique’ must also be adapted to avoid takedowns. You’ll notice a lot of MMA fighters don’t follow through with their kicks … this isn’t because they don’t know ‘how to kick’ … it’s because they’re concerned about over committing to the kick and getting taken down if they miss. You’ll notice at around the 2:03 mark Berneung goes for a standard muay thai leg kick with follow through, it causes him to stumble … now the other dude chased him and went for a ‘flying knee’? … I can assure you a quality MMA dude would have gone for a takedown right there and probably have got it!
Another ‘technique’ aspect that needs to be adapted is stance … Both have a very short stance and show little concern about being taken down (by strike or drive through takedowns). You can see Bernueng is particularly vulnerable to being unbalanced … see 1:43, 2:02, 2:52 … a quality MMA dude would have taken advantage of these situations, wheras Berneung’s opponent failed to (because he also has a muay thai mind set).
Similarly another ‘technical change’ that a Muay Thai dude has to consider is the grapple. In MMA they drive and penetrate through a person. In Muay Thai they stand and clinch working for a rotationally-based take down. A quality MMA fighter would take advantage of that approach. And also note that neither fighter didn’t even attempt driving takedowns, even when they had caught a limb … instead they went for ‘muay thai’ kick/sweeps … A quality MMA fighter wouldn’t make that mistake.
3. The other aspect these dudes have to work on is strategy … There’s quite a lot we could go into here … but off the top of my head …
When they grapple, they chose to use muay thai stationary throws and defenses that don’t work that well against penetrating takedowns (the bread and butter options chosen by those MMA fighters with a wrestling background).
On the fence they don’t utilize ‘dirty boxing’ … a standard option utilized by the better MMA athletes (think Randy Couture).
They lack the fast hand combinations and rapid forward drive associated with many of MMA’s better strikers who have been influenced by boxing.
They’re used to a simple ‘walk up, stand in front of one another and fight’ approach … good MMA dudes will utilize the extra size of the cage to implement a more angular and mobile offensive and defensive style.
etc. etc.
I hope that makes sense?
I have little doubt that Berneung’s MMA coach will have him working on these kinds of issues to help improve his game. I’m not criticizing Berneung, I’m just pointing out he’s a newbie at the MMA game. And what has worked so well for him in Muay Thai standup, is a disadvantage for him in MMA standup.
I”ve been surprised by some of the attitudes on this blog. Why should you expect the rest of the world to learn about Muay Thai, if you aren’t prepared to learn about the more popular fighting sports like MMA and boxing?
Don’t fall into some over-romanticised idea that we need to protect Muay Thai from the heathens. Next time you fall into this naive and simplistic way of thinking … spare a thought for how our ‘great and noble’ sport treats our nak muays at the moment … if you think retiring at 30, poor and near crippled without any financial security is a good thing … keep the sport your little secret. If you want to see improvements in the quality and quantity of competition and conditions for fighters, you must develop a more inclusive approach to dealing with other fighting sports—particularly MMA. Every MMA fighter would benefit from learning Muay Thai … this alone offers great opportunities for expansion and education of our art.
We’ve gotta move past parochialism and try and make Muay Thai a sport open to as many people as possible.
Cheers!
February 13, 2009 at 10:46 pm
I like reading and replying to your discussions fightgeek. if you were in Florida I would definitely philosophize over some sake!
You make good sense. I said before change is inevitable..and it is not the 1st time martial arts world is shaken up and wont be the last..everything balances out in the end. Back in the day Kung Fu was the sh&t…now..not so much.
I have some MMA guys in our gym, hey they are quite good students, we all get along..3 members of our fight team are MMA guys. And you know I love MT but I dont mind learning a little grappling in case I end up in a scuffle in a bar fight and I am on the floor. Learning disciplines is a good thing, I think. And I never get into one vs the other. it is how well you do with what u got. yes MMA or the idea of mixing styles got a bad rap due to mass marketing..but we are all brethren..
just my 2 cents
And I think the lack of penetrating takedowns comes form the fact that these guys never grew up wrestling the way folks in N AMerica or Europe do. A background in those singles/doubles takedowns lends itself well to MMA…
February 15, 2009 at 4:36 am
Hey Padkeemaw,
I don’t get over to the US very often, but next time I do I’d be keen to try some of your sake :)
Great to here you have some good relationships with MMA dudes … I’m sure they’ll benefit from going to you MT gym.
Take it easy!
February 16, 2009 at 2:14 am
okay I’v been coming to this site for ages now but I’m new to this I became a member 2 seconds ago so i could join in this debate, firstly i think i should point out that I am a huge fan of both MMA and MT, I love everything MT and visit this site everyday, sometimes twice. So if i say anything negative about either sport its not to take sides or insult anyone.
I train in a Gym at London Bridge in MT and the gym runs classes for BJJ, MMA, Sanshou, Karate and of course MT, and I meet guys from all the different arts in the changing rooms and they are all really nice people (especially the MMA guys) the Karate guys are a bit funny but thats because we have an in-gym rivalry which MT are currently winning. Anyway the MMA guys are all ways asking questions and want us to go along and train with them to show them a few things and they are really respectful.
To go back to fight geeks point, MT on its own against MMA wouldn’t stand a chance, a Nak Muay would have to knock the guy out straight away otherwise he would get taken down, if you compare the stances you’ll see that Nak Muay’s have there feet to close together, something which is great for MT but useless in the cage, all MMA fighters stand really wide. As someone who has followed the sport for a long time now I know there is a lot of respect between figthers, of course there is a lot of trash talk in order to hype the fight but at the end, no matter the result the vast majority of fighters are very respectful and gracious in defeat and victory.
It terms purely of self defence BJJ is the best martial art you can learn, something like 90% of street fights end up on the ground, MT won’t save anyone there. MT is a great martial art and a brilliant way of life and the best sport on the planet in my opinion, I watched MT and K1 for years when I was younger and I’m so glad that I train it now.
I have to say that was a little worried about as well about MMA growing in Thailand, but in the UK and Europe alone there are fighters who are sticking with the sport for the love of it, and MMA is growing here, they could very easily jump ship if they wanted. As long as people still practise MT and enjoy it then its not going to go anywhere, the MT guys i train with hate MMA when ever I try to talk about recent fights no one is interested.
There is more money in MMA but that whole industry sees promotions come and go every day. I don’t think we have anything to worry about just yet.
well I hope that made sense and didn’t make me look like an idiot. Thanks.
February 16, 2009 at 2:16 am
I didn’t mean to write that much at all, I’m really sorry about that, it didn’t seem like that much in the text block.
February 16, 2009 at 4:43 am
no worries on the long post buzzkick, blogs are for debate and sharing of ideas. I think once we step out of the hype and marketing circle, any fighter we meet will generally have respect for other forms
February 16, 2009 at 5:28 am
i disagree with 90% of fights ending up on the ground, they end up on the ground if u wanna get kicked in the face..
February 16, 2009 at 7:24 am
Cheers fightgeek.
Anyway this post has to have one of the most (and longest!) comments on this site!?
February 16, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Top Muay Thai Fighter will be turn to fight in MMA
Video From Fairtex Pattaya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvtQ5xKRH2s
February 16, 2009 at 1:55 pm
If a striker wants to move to MMA the first thing to do is to watch Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida fights and evolution.
Of course I’m biased, to me these guys are the current best Brazilian MMA fighters, and I’m Brazilian. But they both evolve their skills to MMA taking advantage of their striking power, on the ground too, without offering grapplers many chances to takedowns.
fight geek wrote the basics, in theory, but watch these guys is a good practical guide.
@buzzkick:
Being Brazilian I grew up listening to this: “It terms purely of self defence BJJ is the best martial art you can learn, something like 90% of street fights end up on the ground”.
But if you think in a real, on the street fight. The last place you want to be is on the ground, exposed to all kind of strikes from your opponent friends, securities or even cops.
And Bjj figthers know that, because in Brazil, when they got into a fight in a night club or in the street, the first thing they do is to surround the figthers to avoid anyone else to get into the fight. (Before you ask, yes they allways have friends to help them :))
February 16, 2009 at 2:41 pm
what I meant was, and I probably wasn’t clear, that in terms of being attacked by someone then BJJ is great, having said that you most probably know a lot more about BJJ then I do. in England its the same, if you get into trouble with someone then they go and get 8 mates and they kick your head in or they get a knife and stab you, in that case the best martial art is probably the 100 metre sprint or marathon running.
There is absolutly no biased in mentioning Silva and Machida they are two of the best fighters in MMA, Silva, in my opinion is the best. Machida comes from a Karate background and to his credit continues to fight in that style, still using the karate stance and a lot of karate strikes. But Machida has a very wide base and he has good wrestling skills which help him a lot.
There are quite a few successful MT fighters in MMA like Mirco Cro Cop (not so much now but in the passed), James Irvin trains at Fairtex in Bangplee and there are many more.
I don’t think the popularity of the sport will dwindel at all, especial when someone sees a fighter who trains in MT do well, that may encourage them to find out more about MT. Although looking at EZ2DJ’s video is a bit worrying there were some big name fighters training there, Thai kids are gonna see that and want to do it to.
February 16, 2009 at 7:25 pm
best martial art is probably the 100 metre sprint or marathon running.
That’s my favorite self defense move. If you are able to throw a kick “down under” before you start to run, even better :)
February 16, 2009 at 10:04 pm
You feel it’s less than dignified Nop because it is. You’re not jumping to a conclusion or making a rash decision in my opinion. It seems rational to me.
I love all this couch side commentary from guys that have never fought and never will fight either MMA or Muay Thai. It’s not snobbery at all Nop it’s common sense and the way MMA has typically been marketed – to the lowest common denominator. I like how now Crocop is a Muay Thai fighter now having never had a Muay Thai fight in his life and admitedly from his own interviews describes himself as a karate student first.
Now to round it up the typical biased rants of the Muay Chaiya contingent and we have a near complete picture of everything that is wrong with casual fans.
February 17, 2009 at 6:50 am
Stack,
You’re obviously entitled to your opinion, but do you always have to attempt to belittle anyone who disagrees with you? It doesn’t make your argument any more convincing.
I’m all for you having strong opinions about the style of fighting you love. That’s a good thing … but must you always resort to attacking people?
You are, without doubt, the most bitter and arrogant Muay Thai fan I’ve ever encountered.
I’m sorry you feel that I’m part of ‘everything that is wrong’ with the casual fans of Muay Thai today, as I have a great love for the sport, and want to see it grow.
I can’t be bothered getting into another argument with you.
And before I sign off, I should at least say something positive …
I really appreciate all the work you do to get quality muay thai clips up on Youtube. I’ve learned a lot from watching those clips … particularly some of the older ones.
K
February 17, 2009 at 7:49 pm
You’re welcome to disagree all you want along with your opinion on arrogance and yet I’m not the one trying to tie into things that have nothing to do with each or make broad sweeping claims based on bullshit.
I could creless whether you value my opinions or don’t. This the thrid time you’ve made statement sabout me and how allegedly you don’t want to argue with me yet here you are making a cryfest about things you don’t like. Oh well at least you like the free videos.
February 17, 2009 at 9:03 pm
And hey Fight geek since you keeping getting your feelings hurt about the truth feel free to stop hotlinking to my videos any time. In the meantime you can continue being among the stupidest commenters any where.
You are without a doubt one of the stupidest, bitterest, clueless commenter any where.
February 17, 2009 at 10:07 pm
*Sigh …
Okay Stack … If you don’t want me to link to your youtube clips I won’t from now on.
I’m not sure why you want ‘less exposure’ for Muay Thai … but that’s your business.
Stupid and clue-less I can accept … never claimed to be an expert and I’ve certainly done my fair share of stupid things … but bitter?
I’m a pretty easy going dude, and happy most of the time … and I very rarely have a bad word to say about anyone.
Still, I wish you all the best. Perhaps one day we can be friends.
Cheers
February 17, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Cro Cop isn’t MT? Well, I never knew that, I’v seen him train MT in some videos and with some K1 MT fighters. Not really a big deal tho, no need to kick off about it.
February 18, 2009 at 2:04 am
Hey Fightgeek I never mentioned you by name. You freely like discussing me here on this site so let’s re-examine who’s bitter shall we? After three times of your stupid nonsensical rants about or against me here I’ve finally directly answered your stupidity and given it the attention it’s been crying for. You’re welcome.
You often have a bad word to say to me despite me having virtually nothing to say about you in any aspect. That’s funny that you self-acknowledge your status as a casual fan and a part of everything wrong with that contingent when unlike you I never bothered mentioning anyone by name.
As for the hotlinking from you consider it a thing of the past starting today.
February 18, 2009 at 2:51 am
Stack,
last try …
We both have our own ideas about fighting and we both have strong opinions about one another …
But I still hope you’re having a great life and have many happy years in front of you. And I particularly hope you get a lot of joy from Muay Thai.
I’ll also try my best to get along with you on this forum …
February 18, 2009 at 3:04 am
Great you can start by never using my name or my videos in whatever pointless rant you decide to have next. You’ll note I never mention you any where because frankly I can’t be bothered most of the time and don’t care that much.
Now truthfully I could care less whether you hate me or love me. I actually kind of hope you hate me and therefore stop using me as a target for your nonsense rants as your title is accurate – you’re a fight geek and not a fight fan and have made it abundantly clear integrity or accuracy is not important to you and never will be. Still it’s your right and I invite it – hate way.
But you need to #1 stop hotlinking to my youtube channel. I mean at least Nop has the decency to acknowledge where he got it from. You cannot even do that much. Nop and I disagree too and probably often but Nop has sense for debate and logic. You know – that stuff you can’t do. #2 Stop mentioning me by name because you get ass hurt about some commentary I make and instantly assume it’s all about you. I’m not saying it is or isn’t – you CHOSE to respond. But think for a second – I don’t actually care about you that much.
You’re right about one thing though we both have strong opinions – mine are factually and experience based whereas yours are mostly hyperbole and googled blogs on fitness and diet. Beyond that I genuinely love Muay Thai and take offense when I see it basically being treated with a lack of respect, authenticity or even basic sense and fairness. Once again make good on your promise and stop hotlinking to the videos I encode and upload so you can some cheap hits for your site. It’s not a good practice from you and really not something I would ever welcome had I become aware of it much sooner. Nop as always can link as often and as much as he wants.
February 18, 2009 at 3:32 am
Stack,
Well, you can’t say I didn’t try.
You are of course mistaken in much of your commentary, but that’s not important.
I certainly don’t hate you. And as I said, I hope for good things in your life.
Some advice though, don’t let the anger eat you up, dude … otherwise in a few years down the track you’ll end up becoming a bitter old man.
Enjoy your Muay Thai.
February 18, 2009 at 3:58 am
wat r u retards complaining about LOL
February 18, 2009 at 4:00 am
fight geek you’re an idiot. Because I don’t welcome stupidity unchallenged doesn’t mean I’m bitter it just means I am not about to splash around in hog shit like you and be happy about it.
February 18, 2009 at 4:31 am
You need to cheel out mahn. Jamaican me crazy. Grab some respect.
February 18, 2009 at 8:31 am
fellas….
chill.
February 18, 2009 at 10:35 am
And Frank chimes in right after I mention people making a joke of Muay Thai. Could not have better timing. How’s that rematch with Jesse and Ricci going?
February 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm
lol, stack what are you talking about? I wanted a rematch. I had nothing good to say about Jesse in that fight.
February 18, 2009 at 6:25 pm
LOL, what am I talking about? The fact that a rematch was set and Jesse is shockingly declining it. Your Jamacian is about as believable as your denial of it, Mike Miles status as arjan and Jesse’s credibility as ‘winner’ of his Contender qualifier.
February 18, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Look, I seriously had no idea. I solely train at Trevor’s gym, and have never, in my life even talked to Mike, and I’ve said I never want him in my corner. I don’t know what else I can say.
February 20, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I have some part of video Muay Thai Chaiya seminar by kru preang in 2006
it will show why i say muay thai can train to fight in mma too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvuKiQlDNDw
March 28, 2009 at 6:44 pm
I just breezed through the comments. Stack is either insane or trolling, and I really think people just need to stop responding to these bizzare rants of his/hers
If anyone’s interested, Cro-Cop’s background is in tae kwon do and amatuer boxing, not Muay Thai or Karate.