Lohm Muay
August 7, 2008 by nopstar
I imagine once humans figured out the whole fire and hunting deal, it wasn’t long until we started betting on stuff. It seems like second nature to just bet on stuff.
Gamblers@Lumpini Michael Soo Photography
Eventually the betting and the money find their way into the playing field, court or ring. A few weeks ago Singhkla Sor. Khamsing was found guilty of throwing fights aka Lohm Muay (lohm means fall). I’m unclear as to how many fights he’s been implemented in, or how they even figured it out. There is a long history of it in Muay Thai. It’s a dirty little secret no one seems to want to talk about.
The fighter’s penalty was a 6 month suspension. Most Thai fight fans think these fighters got off way too easily. In the States we hold effing senate hearings over these types of scandals… it’s a very big deal.
How ever you dice it, it’s bad for the sport. What do you guys feel is an appropriate punishment? Lifetime ban? A one year suspension? I imagine if you’re on the way up, a 1 year ban is effectively a career killer. I tend to lean towards people ultimately want to do good… but can make bad decisions. I tend to want to give people another chance.
Yeah the betting at Lumphini always seems so crazy. I love how the fighters uncle runs down from the stands into the corner and seems to 1) tell the kid he has to knee more this round because that is what the bet is and 2) shoves his hand in the kids face because it is covered in some menthol wake-me-up type of shit. This all seems to happen without anyone caring.
With regards to fighters throwing fights, it does really seem to stem from bad situations and bad decisions. Seems to be well known even making its way into both Ong Bak and Muay Chaiya movies..
I head a rumor, not going to name the name here, but one of our well-known former thai fighters in the US actually had to leave Thailand because he threw a fight.
Yeah, Gambling in the arena has really ruined the sport. It has ruined the reputation of Muay Thai from being a respected martial arts to being a business. It’s a shame how fighters throw away pride and honor for bribes and a little extra pocket change. It’s also really irritating to see Muay Thai fighters being treated as Dogs. I would much rather concentrate on a fight then seeing people throwing up hand gesture and wondering if the fight is being fixed. I really wish they would remove all the gambling and betting at these stadiums.
While shopping at Boon Sports off of Sukumwit avenue in Bangkok, a thirty something year old father and his ten year old son came in. I continued to browse as the father picked out some hand wraps, some gauze, vaseline, and liniment. He chatted with the australian shopowner, who replied impressively in fluent thai. The duo left a few minutes later and the shop owner turned to me.
“That kid is going to have a fight tonight,” he said.
“Ah, that’s why they’re getting the handwraps,” I replied.
“That kid has a 30,000 baht bet on him tonight.”
“Fuck, that is a fucking shit load of money. That’s like $3,000 dollars.”
“The guys from the gym all pool their money together to bet on their fighter. Its a pride thing. See who can make the biggest bet, so whose kid is the best.”
“Fuck,” I said with surprise. I’d never realized that that much money was bet on a fight, especially on a fight with kids.
“I think its a little screwy on the kids, its so much pressure to win. That’s a shit ton of money. The adults scream at them afterwards if they lose.”
“Yeah, that’s pretty fucking crazy,” I say ending the conversation shaking my head.
Betting is a part of the sport. I think that it makes the sport exciting… to watch. I don’t think its real great for the fighters though.
As for punishment for taking falls… I think the real problem is the money. Fighters fight for money. Most fighters in thailand are fighting as occuppations. When you become a little older, a little slower, you still need to make money, you’ve still got to send money home, you still have a lifestyle to keep up. What do you do? Some people choose to take the fall.
I think the problem is that there is a lack of choices for fighters. How can someone who is undereducated, and only knows fighting make money… good money… money to live off of and not just scrape by with. There’s more at stake than just a fight, that’s whats so cut throat about capitalism, everything is reduced to economic imperatives.
Yeah although this scandle is bad for the sport I beleive its very tough to govern. I was prety daming against thongchai’s drug scandle but I think this one is different.
As most of you should know, muay thai behind the scenes in thailand is corupt as hell, speaking from personal experience. Promoters usualy have strong ties with the mafia in the form of protection or loans. And when they owe a favour to them it can get quite threatening.
I learned and trained muaythai in Mahasarakham in north eastern thailand. Our camp owner would never enter fight arenas without a knife or a gun. It’s that serious. one night he explained that he owed the local mob boss some money and if his fighter didn’t fall in the third that night then it will get serious. (like the movie Snatch). And guess what, he got KO’d in the third.
SO I beleive that if the fighter took a dive for his own financial gain, then yeah jail his ass. He should be shamed.
But if he was force to against his will, then we should view it differently.
I have no idea how the police can govern this because they are also corupt as hell. Thailand is mad place.
Thoughts from a half cast Thai……..
they should ban the gym not the fighter.
Good Question, but I too believe that people want to be good and happy, but Money, Status, and Competition, can and will corrupt some souls.
Not to mention social difficulties, drugs, alcohol, and general good memories!
I think a year long ban is a good thing, but it can’t be the only measure if you want to stop fight throwing. There needs to be an industry-wide initiative, including a lot of the things the other posters have spoken about.
Tougher penalties on the gyms, tougher penalties on the nak muay, better regulation and organisation of the betting that does happen (cause you’ll never get rid of it), more police presence and protection so that the mob doesn’t get involved… and obviously, maybe a minimum wage or a govt. subsidised program to make sure that nak muay aren’t so desperately poor that they feel economically forced to throw fights.
In a dream world…
Need very stiff penalties. A year long ban is def a good start, but all involved should be investigated. Really hurts the sport in the end.
Cheating is, unfortunately, as old as sport itself.
I’d be inclined for very harsh penalties, but to me it seems harder to implement in MT than others. Take for example soccer; I think when people take a dive and it’s reviewed after the game on tape, the player and team should be fined harshly and the player suspended without pay for several games.
In MT, where do you place the blame – the fighter, kru, ajarn, camp manager, all of them? Also, pretend you have to prove the dive in front of a court. It would be impossible to substantiate the dive if the person was hit, even if very lightly.
So for me, cut the crap. I want to see honorable athletes perform (in all sports). Give out harsh penalties…. easy to do with the chump rich athletes in the western world… much harder to do to somebody who sleeps on a dirt floor and eats rice 7 days a week.
As Frank mentions above, things are a lot harder for a desperately poor nak muay. It is easy to turn down an “offer” when you live a comfortable life, but in the third world things are very different. I am sure that these offers are very hard to resist because these usually come as a combination: cash compensation if you follow, physical punishment if you don’t.
Some people don’t like it when their sports go “mainstream”, but I think it’s very good because things get more organized and athletes are better compensated, making cheating a lot less attractive (or a lot more expensive).
Gambling isn’t the problem. The problem rests on the sports inability to provide a decent living for the vast majority of nak muays in Thailand.
Punishment won’t work.
Ensuring the ability for camps, trainers and nak muays to earn decent money is the only way forward.
This can only be achieved by the expansion of muay thai. A truly global muay thai (both professional and amateur) would help alleviate a lot of the problems that have plagued the sport in Thailand.
Fighter X made a very good point.
For me, punishment is the only thing that will work. It is the most believable way for camps and promoters to expand muay thai. For now, gambling is the easiest way for making extra money.
It’s the gym that should be punished, not the fighter. If the fighter was the guilty one, the gym will deal with the fighter, probably forbid him to fight or expel him. If the gym is guilty, they’ll pay either way. After all, gym trains their fighters and promote them or are in direct contact with promoters. So, they’re responsible for their fighters.
If you’re making a contract and the realization is done by your workers and someone made a mistake, it’s you who is guilty. You’re responsible for signing contract papers.
What should the punishment be is difficult to answer. Usually the punishment is somehow parallel to profit the sport is making.
The more I think of it, does MT need to be forced into promotion, since Thailand is a “bad” place? What will change MT mentality in Thailand?
Don’t see a problem canceling gambling, even if it’s a part of MT tradition. It’s the only way, if it’s hurting it.
Gusnark, You have good points.
I think if gambling is baned, there will be little change in the under world as they don’t take any notice about the law. The law is hardly enforceable as the police force is so incompatent and corrupt to take any action.
In fact gambling in all forms is illegal in thailand and yet the police is unable to enforce this law in the muaythai world.
To me theway to change MT in mentality in thailand is better marketing. We need a good looking role model to be the pin up boy for the sport( maybe Narupol?).
Also if muaythai becomes an olympic sport then this will be a huge boost also.
yeh……….