163 responses so far ↓

• 1 Joe // Aug 10, 2007 at 12:28 am

  I’ve seen some videos of Khmer kickboxing on youtube and it looks closely related to muay thai based on what I saw. I’m sure back in the day, many years ago, that they influenced each other. Those countries are right next to each other right?

• 2 Joe // Aug 10, 2007 at 12:34 am

  this is one of the videos I’m refering to:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWkQCXPEW4k

• 3 Phlogiston // Aug 10, 2007 at 5:49 am

  Coming from a Cambodian background, I would say that Muay Thai and Khmer boxing are fairly similar. I take Muay Thai now and haven’t encountered any major differences. I would like to see Cambodia develop their sport more and compete internationally, but until they kick out the Khmer Rouge war criminals who run the current government, I’m afraid Cambodia will only slowly develop until these genocidal killers all pass away.

• 4 Tong Po // Aug 10, 2007 at 10:49 am

  They look very similar- pretty much the same fighting style. Do they compete much against Muay Thai?

• 5 SpydaMan // Aug 10, 2007 at 3:22 pm

  Every year from what I have read. Khmer fighters get a one day pass to Thailand to get thrashed by Muay Thai fighters. It’s sad…I think they should put actually Khmer Champions vs actual Muay Thai Champions so we can have a better idea other than those fights I have witnessed. From what I have seen of the style…Muay Thai as a whole seems to look much more polished than Leithwei.

• 6 Kote Law Loi // Aug 10, 2007 at 6:21 pm

  I’m not surprised. Alot of surrounding south east asian countries poot mai dee and talk shit about not only the art of muay thai but about Thailand. I hear it from khun viet, khun Malay, I purma and chinese duoy. The fact is they are jealous. When people poot chok or talk about fighting the first words on their lips are either muay thai or MMA. Now think about if you were that cambodian kid at that event and how you might react to all the attention that Thailand is getting, he wants to be proud duoy, but when he tells somebody he’s cambo they probably ask “Is that close to Thailand mai?”

• 7 KHMER PATRIOT // Aug 11, 2007 at 9:15 pm

  I JUST FOUND THIS WEBSITE AND READ IT.
  I THINK IT ONE OF MY BORAN BROTHER THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, IS IT AT THE SAN FRANCISCO FIGHT ON THE 28TH OF JULY, IF THAT THE ONE. WELL IT REALLY HARD TO EXPLAIN
  I CAN ONLY PUT IT THIS WAY, TO EXPLAIN HOW WE FEEL.
  IF YOU WORKING ON A PROJECT, AND YOU DO ALL THE WORK, BUT WHEN THE BOSS CAME AND SOME BODY TOOK IT AND CLAIM THAT HE DO ALL THE WORK, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT IT???
  THAT HOW WE FEEL. WE JUST WANT OUR NAME, AND OUR CRIDET FOR INVENTING IT THAT ALL WE WANT.
  THE REASON OUR NAME HAVENT COME UP AS YOU MAY ALREADY KNOW BECUASE OF THE CIVIL WAR….
  BUT RIGHT NOW WE DONT HAVE SOMEONE TO PROMOTE US. AND THE KUN KHMER NOW IS COMING FAST. IF YOU WANT TO GO AND CHECK THE SCHOOL OUT THERE ONE IN STOCKTON, CA I WOULD BE GLADLY TO GIVE YOU THE CONTACT, AND MY FELLOW BORAN BROTHER WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE EXPLAINATION THAT YOU NEED IN PERSON.
  MY APOLOGY ON BEHALF OF MY FELLOW BROTHER IF IT WAS HIM. I HOPE YOU FORGIVE US. WE COULD OF START A BETTER CONVERSATION. I GUESS OF WHAT HE SAID CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION.
  IF YOU HAVE QUESTION I WILL COME TO THIS WEBSITE AND CHECK FOR NOTE. I NOTICE MY BORAN BROTHER THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. IF IT HIM HE WILL SHOW UP HERE AND TELL HIM YOU HOW HE FEEL. BUT PLEASE KEEP IT AT PEACE.
  I APPRICICATE THAT YOU HAVE RESEARCH ON MY HISTORY AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND OUR PROSPECTIVE. I THINK I HAVE TALK TO YOU TO THAT NIGHT TOO.
  THIS IS BEEN A LONG HISTORY FOR US KHMER AND THAI.
  MUAY THAI IS SIMILAR TO PRADEY SEREY,
  THAI ARE USUALLY EXPERT IN KNEES,
  KHMER ARE EXPERT IN ELBOWS. THAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THEY ARE TRAIN.
  BUT KUN KHMER BORAN IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM MUAY THAI AND PRADEY SEREY, IT THE MAIN ART OF BOTH OF THEM. I GUESS MUAY THAI NOW CLAIM ALL ONG BOK MOVES BY TONNY JAA AS MUAY BORAN NOW.
  MUAY IN KHMER MEAN ONE
  BORAN MEAN ANCIENT. IDK WHAT IT MEAN IN THAI… BUT IT KHMER WORD FOR ALL I KNOW. .. IF ANYONE OUT THERE WHO CAN ENLITE ME OF WHAT IT MEAN AND SPEAK BOTH LANGUAGE PLEASE TELL ME.
  GO AND ASK A THAI PERSON IF THEY KNOW WHAT IT “MUAY” MEAN, CHECK THEIR DITIONARY…
  KHMER PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PROMOTE OUR ART THRUGH MESSAING, THROUGH CHATROON, THROUGH ALOT OF WEBITE. AND THORUGH FIGHT IN THE RING.
  IFANYBODY OUT THER WHO ARE INTEREST, AND WANT TO HELP OR JSUT WANT TO FIND OUT ABOU THTIS PLEASE LEAVE YOUR EMAIL.
  MY EMAIL IS MCJDTJAFJROTC@YAHOO.COM
  FROM THERE I F YOU WANT TO LEARN I WILL GIVE U THE CONTACT.
  IT WILL BE FREE… IT OUR TRADITION TO TRAIN FOR FREE… MONEY HAVE NEVER COME TO THE TRAINER MIND. THEY JUST WANT TO TRAIN YOU AND SHARE THEIR PASSION, AND THE LOVE OF ART.
  AGAIN ON BEHALF OF MY BORAN BROTHER I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE, I HOPE WE CAN HAVE A BETTER CONVERSATION IN THE FUTURE.
  THANK FOR YOUR INTEREST IN OUR ART.
  WE HOPE TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE SOMEDAY.
  THANK YOU FOR TAKING YOUR TIME TO READ THIS NOTE. PLEASE DONT HESITATE TO COMMENT US. WE ALWAYS HERE TO EXPLAIN AND SHARE OUR THOUGHS.
  I HOPE THAT THIS WILL CLEAR THINGS UP A LITTLE BIT FOR EVERYONE. PLEASE EXCUSE MY ENGLISH…
  AGAIN FOR ANYBODY WHO ARE CURIOUS AND INTEREST ABOUT KUN KHMER BORAN WE HAVE A SCHOOL IN STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA, OHIO STATE
  FOR MORE INFORMATION PLEASE LOG ON TO THE WEBSITE ABOVE OR THIS WEBSITE
  http://www.angkorianwarriors.com/
  THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
  HAVE A GREAT WEEKEN EVERY ONE
  STAY SAFE
  -KHMER PATRIOT

• 8 nae // Aug 12, 2007 at 6:03 pm

  did anyone else not read the above post because it’s in all caps?

  i have many khmer friends and they all have parents and grandparents that were murdered and that’s why they’re seeking refuge in the US still.

• 9 kirihingsa // Aug 13, 2007 at 5:58 am

  There have been heated debates between nations about a true origins of South East Asian kickboxing(Pradal Serey or Muay Thai), which the Khmer does not need to prove to the world of her existent for her Angorian cultural and art is a living prove among the Khmer on the wall of Angkor. Until the Angkor temples are still standing, and Ta Prom still smilling, no one can claim it but the Khmer.

  Ask your self this question? But first you need to KNOW and UNDERSTAND of the South East Asia history evolve first prior to the start of debating about our (Asian) rich history heritage. The Thai changed their name from “Siam” (please don’t ask me what this word mean in Khmer because our king gave them this name) to “Thai” (free) as they were fully in depended from the Khmer and from the European expansion in 1939. The Khmer (Cambodia) kingdom exists over 3000 years of rich history from greatness to immensity within decades and decades of WARS. The Pradal Serey exists long since the great king of Preah Batt Jayavarman VII, one of the most forceful and productive kings of the Khmer (Cambodian) Empire of Angkor (reigning 1181c. 1220), not to mention the existent of Kbach Kun Khmer Boran, Bokator, Sro Ngair Pan just to name a few styles. So, hold your thought, did the “Tiger King” called it “Muay Boran” or “Muay Siam”? And by the way, the Tiger king appears on every corner of Muay Thai’s history was he the one who gave the name of “Muay Thai” or he gave the name of Muay Siam? Running around with their head cut off, if you follow their (the Thai-Siam) history, it is going in cycle because they are trying so hard to exterminate and manipulate the Khmer for which they are part of the Khmer history, notice the Khmer-Surin calls Isaan, ask your trainer what the “Isaan” mean in Thai? And where is the location in Thai Land? And if you happened to train at Surin, where they develop a lot of good fighters from, ask them if they are Khmer-Surin? You will be surprise to find as much Khmer population living among the Thai, guy like Buakauw or Tony Jaa just name a few.

  Let put it to the end of this hot debate. Majority of the world not interested of KNOWING how the Chocolate becomes chocolate, for them only INTEREST of it sweetness and careless of it root, the cacao tree or the chocolate tree or where it is produce. And there is some similarity of the Art of Kbach Kun Boran Khmer, which its sweetness is the Pradal Serey, or Muay Thai. Only a true artist will not only study the art but it people, culture and history as well.

• 10 Kbach Kun Khmer Boran // Aug 13, 2007 at 8:17 am

  Hey , I think i am one of those kids you are talking about in your article. Thank you for your article i like the way u made it. I want to apologize because im not sure if it was me or my brother that said it, but im sure we did not mean to say it within earshot of you and i dont mean to disrespect you as a person. If you wanna know more about our art and our philosophy or if u have any questions about the things khmer patriot or kirihingsa or myself have said already u can contact me at nairbmup@yahoo.com. thanks. talk to you soon i hope.

• 11 Tong Po // Aug 13, 2007 at 10:11 am

  Cool. I’m glad these “guys” found this site and helped clarify!

• 12 somebody // Aug 14, 2007 at 5:50 pm

  why do i always see and hear khmer complain? i wonder why?

• 13 Third perspective // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:35 pm

  I notice there were n’t any come back /debates about the sensitive topic, based on the few last posted..? Interesting indeed!!

• 14 Third perspective // Aug 14, 2007 at 11:38 pm

  You need to read what have been posted so far, ‘Somebody’. You might learn or even understand a few things or two…

• 15 iron fist // Aug 15, 2007 at 1:20 am

  did u dat 70-8o% of top fiters in thailand are of khmer ancestry. da top fiters cum from da issan provinces of thailand where da khmer lives, & was once part of cambodia. f u don’t balieve me jus take a deep research in to da backhround of da top thai fiters. like bukauw, jomhod, rabaam samdet. jus to name a few.

  i wish dat cambodia & thailand can get ova da issues, & compete like we use to before da cambodian civil war. bak den it was all about da fite, but now it’s gone all political. it could benefit both countries if we went bak to competing da way it was before da khmer civil war.

• 16 ed // Aug 15, 2007 at 8:19 am

  on a completely unrelated note, i went to a cambodian+laotian wedding in oakland chinatown over the weekend. damn boy, y’all khmers know how to party! endless flow of remy & heineken, live cambodian band, circle dancing, and even a little pacalolo from the bride’s gangster younger brothers = good times!

• 17 Kote Law Loi // Aug 19, 2007 at 12:36 am

  Took Thonng!!!!!! HEN MAI!!!!!!!!!! They might be mixed or close to cambo but they are from THAILAND!!!!!!! I heard everybody say it viet, jin, nippon, farang mun kun!! The fact is thailand is producing the best nak muay!!! If cambo mee good boxer, where are they??? NAI A?? Mai Hen NA KRUP!!!

• 18 kote law loi kaaa doy ayy // Aug 19, 2007 at 10:46 am

  do you research and u see where they are.

• 19 SpydaMan // Aug 19, 2007 at 5:54 pm

  Play nice children!….even the if truth is that Muay Thai derives from Cambodia, we “farangs” don’t really care. To rest of the world it will always be Muay “THAI” or “THAI” Boxing. So let’s stop arguing about the origin and let’s start talking about the future of the sport instead and insures that its popularity increases. Other than some Thais and most Cambodians nobody else cares what Buakaws, Johmod or Rambaa’s origins are…we only care that they KICK ASS!!….HOLLA!!…Let’s all just get along!!

• 20 Kote Law Loi // Aug 20, 2007 at 7:32 am

  Kwai lah??? Muenga, pom put wa, THEY ARE COMING FROM THAIAND!!!! CLOSE TO THE BORDER OR NOT!!!! NOT FROM CAMBODIA OR ANYWHERE ELSE NA!!! WHOSE THE SHIT RIGHT NOW??? BUAKAW CHAI MA?? HE IS THAI! BORN AND RAISED THAI! CLOSE TO THE BORDER? YES! BUT ON THAILAND SIDE!!! KAOCHAI MA??? Seems like you should do your research. Ina mao. The only asian countries with significant output of good fighters are THAILAND AND JAPAN. JING JING!!!

• 21 nopstar // Aug 20, 2007 at 8:07 am

  Kote Law Loi-

  English please… I can understand you but 98% of this blog can’t.

  I think their point was those fighters are of Khmer descent.

  I’m not really interested in debating the point, sort of a fruitless exercise.

• 22 Spydaman // Aug 20, 2007 at 8:11 am

  Last time I checked this was a Muay Thai blog…Not a “Trace your family tree” blog.

• 23 nae // Aug 20, 2007 at 12:28 pm

  asians only have problems with other asians.

• 24 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 20, 2007 at 1:05 pm

  Kun Khmer predated Muay Thai? you must be kidding. Them khmer should look around and see how popular is Mauy Thai and yet shameless stil claimed predated Muay Thai.

  Last weekend, one Khmer promoter held the event at in NH, didn’t have KHMER FIGHTER AT ALL and I asked him why, he simply said, This is America, I’m a promoter who promted those who wanted to fight.. But KHMER PROMTER WHO PROMOTED MUAY THAI? what this mean, can any Khmer out there tell me?? or simply that KHMER FIGHTERS ARE SUCK??

• 25 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 20, 2007 at 1:20 pm

  By the way, only Mauy Thai boxing clubs such as SITYODTONG or Boston Mauy Thai could produce good fighter in Massachusetts. Fighters pay to train , I wonder why??? Vs Free KUN KHMER?

  In April 2007, 3 of Khmers fighters were beaten badly.. that is very embarrasing if you called KUN KHMER Predated Mauy. Maybe you come and visit us in Somerville instead of asking us to go to Stockton..

• 26 JON // Aug 20, 2007 at 10:07 pm

  Let wait and see… muay thai and pradey serey…
  time and place can be a crucial matters… you cannot assump anything yet, just becuase u come first and build your house first that doesnt mean your house is the biggest…
  Muay Thai is popular now aday… but every body knows that, im more interest and curious, about this kun khmer… people dont fight just to lied about something… very interesting…

• 27 iron fist // Aug 21, 2007 at 1:35 am

  peace y’all, im jus saying doze top thai fiters are of khmer ancestry. im not saying they are cambodian. they live in thailand, fite in thailand & represent thailand. they are thai citizen of khmer decent or mix decent dats all im saying. why would dat piece of info get people all worked up man. jeez louise.

  kun khmer boran (ancient khmer martial arts) is da original khmer martial arts use by khmer warriors 2 fite on da battle field. it has armed & un-armed combat. un-armed it has freestyle kicboxing & wrestling. armed it has sword, spear, stik fiting, long staff & knife. da bow & arrow is also taught. these were da fiting art of ancient khmer warriors.

  ancient pradal saray (pradal saray means freestyle fiting) fites became a popular spectator sport. but bak den it look jus like todays cage fiting, u.f.c & m.m.a battles. freestyle no rules fiting, where fiters can use kickboxing skills & wrestling skills. it stayed dat way untill da french introduce boxing gloves, boxing ring & sum boxing rules. 2 make it more safer 4 da fiters. they also took out da wrestling & ground fiting. & jus left da stand up kicboxing moves. 4 better viewing 4 da spectators. dat wen it became modern pradal saray. but they still have ancient pradal saray fites in cambodia.

  why can’t thia & khmer fiters compete wif each ada like they did before da cambodian civil war, bak den it was good frenly competition all about da fite & fiters, not about thia or khmer. those were da days. but now there seem 2 be animosity.

  cambodia jus want 2 be recognise 4 da part dat we have in da south east asian kickboxing game. it’s not all juz muay thai in south east asia. there is also prada saray from cambodia.

• 28 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 21, 2007 at 5:57 am

  Why Can’t THAI COMPETE with KHMER FIGHTER? you must be blaimed again. In 2003 THAI Fighter Suriya Beat Eh Phutong badly. Eh Phutong the top fighter in cambodia, so I HEARD. Any way, here is the clip if your Khmer didn’t know that the competion was done…
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obyjLKgsCKU&mode=related&search=

  When Khmer fighters were beat up , they stop claiming that Khmer the best fighters, but try to get recognise it orgine.. Man, when you khmer gonna stop?? Maybe Suriya was Khmer too???

  Come join us in Somerville at 100 Broadway, Somerville, Ma

• 29 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 21, 2007 at 6:00 am

  Forgot to mentioned, a few Khmer come to train with us MUAY THAI… I hope these students will appreciated MUAY THAI. I will named them out when they become a fighter, so at least when they are popular, at least we know they learn MUAY THAI, not KUN KHMER

• 30 Eg The Peacemaker // Aug 21, 2007 at 3:40 pm

  Nobody can really say who or when the Southeast Asian Fighting style was first used except when it was first documented but my guess is it must have been used by someone somewhere in a fight at one time or another. Ancient people were brutal and kicked each others asses a lot…so some of the moves could have been used by Europeans, Americans, African or even the cave-men. It’s like the word fire, it is similar in so many languages but nobody goes round claiming they where the first people the make it. They were just cave men sitting around the fire and called it fire or something and went there separate ways. What I am saying is, it just lost history.
  By the way, the word Muay in Thai just means boxing and the word Boran also means ancient…so u see we are not that different at all. Infact we were probably the same people before all this nation crap was establish. I can go on about this crap but i will end up writing shit if I haven’t already done so.

• 31 JON // Aug 21, 2007 at 8:36 pm

  khmer fighter did use to go compete in thailand, if they win they get offer to fight for thailand or they get shot… that why not many khmer want to fight there. well now they are going to austilia so it dont matter if people dont know pretty soon people will know.

  pradey serey want the name to be know like muay thai

  Loas kickboxing is also pretty similart to these two. we dont care who better or not in the ring, u fighters know that. there always win and lose.

  khmer perspective just want to get reconize that all.

  and they dont say muay thai fighters sucks, or whatever, we dont put other martial art down… idk how a trainer train their fighter but didnt train them with the code of conduct.
  i seen fighter they are very respectful with one another… after the win ova is ova, the best man win. and it keep going on…

  brief history khmer empire was establish long before thai settle from south each asia, thai are the decent of mongol and some chinese… just if u wondering, every thing they have ever culture they have, and most tradition they have were influence by khmer…

  it like the japanese for stuff from china but they make better…

  most muay thai fighter in the U.S are not thai anyway… but everyone love it, pradey serey is not around because no body know about it as muay thai do. well now i guess everybody in this room does know.

  bat twa Loaes kickboxing too… they want thier name to come up too.

  well it all crap… it doesnt matter anymore. Kun Khmer boran is not pradey serey, it not similar to muay thai or muay boran or bat twa… so this is belong to cambodia.

  we dont trash talk you, so please dont trash talking becuase u are a trainer, and you are old enough… if that how u behavier, i guess that how u trian your people too. you train them to be the best, but inside just crap like you. but please… code of conduct is still be here… excuse my language, but the way u present your self in this room, no one will want to go to your school.
  i meet muay thai fighter who are much better fighter he is than the indiviual up there.
  enough said, it not a court so we dont have to fight ova it.

  kun khmer boran is khmer
  pradey serey is khmer
  bokator is khmer

  muay thai is thai
  muay boran is thai…

  now every body happy.
  the best man win. simple as that. no arguement

• 32 Sam // Aug 21, 2007 at 8:46 pm

  hey SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE
  if u got BALLS bring you team to Cambodia and compete man. i heard you guy when to austilia idk if it true or not. well u can go ova to cambodia and try. they cant come ova here. they have no money…they get around 25 dollar per fight. so if u got ball go ova there and fight them…bring your best man all of them… make sure u practice your elbow alot more becuae ova there is legal. and in Mass is not legal. oh the shins too. okayyy… dot forget to post it in youtube, i be waiting to watch.

• 33 iron fist // Aug 22, 2007 at 2:54 am

  sityodtong, u got 2 admit dat was a close fite though but da thai fiter was better & deserve da win. us khmer never claim 2 be da best, how can dat be. but zings can only get better 4 da khmer fite game.

  i’ve even dun muaythai my self, i train at 3 different gyms. if there’s no pradal saray gym around, jus train muay thai. it’s da same thing. only way i can get fites, funny zing is all my trainers know about pradal saray & they reckon there’s a link between muay thai & pradal saray.

  i like 2 watch muay thai fites as well it’s da same as watching pradal saray. except it’s in a different language. cambodai jus want 2 be recognise internationly so we can get da exposure, & hopefully our fiters can enter in 2 big money fite tournament. & from dat cambodia fite game will improve.

  muay thai have dun a great job spreading da sport 2 da world & making it popular. now there is pro fite circuits & tournaments. cambodia jus want a piece of dat pie, so dat it will improve our own fite game in cambodia. 2 get dat we mus be recognise by da rest of da world as having played a part in da development of sport fiting in south east asia.

  i hope cambodia become a power house in kickboxing again, like before da war. dat can benefit evrybody. by having more top fiters 2 compete on da international stage.

  oh by da way wat u zink of rabaam samdet dance moves, he cud use sum tips from usher.

• 34 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 22, 2007 at 11:03 am

  First of all, I tried to make my point as you tried your so hard. I didn’t talk trash but the true regarding the April fight and asked a simple question to why KHMER PROMOTER, PROMOTE MUAY THAI last fight in NH..

  MUAY THAI is THAI why your people kept on saying KUN KHMER PREDATED MUAY THAI? dont you think you trash talk on us???

  We train the best fighters and looking for a good fighters to fight with a great compensation, If you can accomodate that why not? Would you do that? just to setup the fight for us in Cambodia?

  As I remembered, in April event, The KHMER PROMOTER had some loser fighters in the card(FACT) but last event, he didn’t bring KHMER FIGHTER to fight. I will get to the bottom of it to make my point. If he doesn’t asnwer me, I will ask those KHMER STUDENTS WHO TRAIN WITH ME.

  Any way, we dont fight for cheap, if you can compensate us well, you will see all my good fighters go to CAmbodia. Just hope you can make it for us and stop suggestion to us but to make it happens…

• 35 Kote Law Loi // Aug 22, 2007 at 11:41 am

  Poot angrit na. Where are the cambodian fighters at??? All these thai fighters of cambo decent?? Did all of you good genes go to thailand??? WHy doesn’t cambo produce any fighters worth giving a fuck about??? Stop being jealous and HOO PAK NA HEA. Honestly, if cambo had any decent fighter, U NAI A??!??!?! MAI DAI HEN NA!?!?! MA LEAW!!!! Tamai lou mai>??? NAK MUAY MAI MEE INA HEE MUENGA!!! KWAI!!! CAMBO HUA MEUNG!!!! NEXT STOP AFTER THON BURI?? CAMBO!!! MAI GLUA NA WOI!!! You not scaring anbody with that come here and see. I will do everything in my power to fight there(Inshallah). And it’s still siam to me. Why is it i’ve never even heard of “khmer boran” until after muay thai made the come up?? Now all off a sudden china orinated thai boxing with san shou and vietnam was doing before and is really better , put yer yer. FUCK THAT like crabs in a bucket, we at the top and they trying to pull us down. Too late, we already here.

• 36 Anonymous // Aug 22, 2007 at 3:23 pm

  This is really starting to get outta hands!….why don’t yall exchange numbers and call each other cuz right about now yall starting to sound like keyboard warriors. I don’t think this whole argument is worth it…..it’s all just pride talking. I had no idea there was so much animosity between south asian and it’s really sad. Let’s try to keep the peace. Peace!!!!

• 37 SpydaMan // Aug 22, 2007 at 4:18 pm

  That last message was from me by the way!

• 38 Ernesto // Aug 22, 2007 at 4:35 pm

  Agree.. exchange emails and swap emails all day keeping this off a great site.

• 39 Sam // Aug 22, 2007 at 8:59 pm

  there no khmer fighter in Mass that why u couldnt figure that out. THAT why khmer promoter promote muay thai. i guess it all about the money .

  SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE
  i have a question, u said khmer promoter promote muay thai fight in NH is this the same guy that promote the april fight in revere?

  not alot of khmer fight are in the U.S
  if u want to go to fight in cambodia, why dont u ask the khmer promoter, he got alot of connection. im pretty sure he can do sometin about it. umm…. it an idea for u, if u win the khmer fight ova in cambodia, we will shut up. after all it money.

  the best khmer fight is in cambodia, if u are looking for them , they are in cambodia, u find alot of them. umm… however i heard there are khmer kickboxing in long beach, ca if u want to fight them go and challenge them like the old days, if u win there club be shut down. and they win, u will shut it down. that how it is doe.
  anyway… everything come down to money…. bussiness is bussiness and i agree wit everyting u said.
  okay let peace… serious we write to much in here.
  if u are looking for to fight khmer, im sure that khmer promoter that promote muay thai can set u up to fight in cambodia, idk how much money is involve.
  i guess to him it bussiness…. talk is just talk…
  well, peace everybody that the last time i want to write in here.
  i hope and looking forward to see khmer fighter fight with muay thai fighter on national television. … i willl see it someday…
  -sam

• 40 iron fist // Aug 23, 2007 at 1:47 am

  im jus saying, da thai people have always been influence & have adopted khmer culture, customs & tradition. is it so hard 2 believe dat they mite of also adopted da sport fiting of pradal saray as well. & called it muay thai. i mesan is dat so hard 2 beleive.

  any way enuf of politics, im a fite fan jus like evry body here. da fite standard in cambo is as good as thailand, i been 2 both countries & seen da fites. it’s money dats da big difference.

  i want 2 see more fites between top thai & khmer fiters, dat be an awsome spectacle. i mean they are nex door neighbors why dnt it happen more. i zink they let politics get in da way. it will great ly benefit both countries.

  my favourite fiter at da moment is bukauw & a khmer fiter name bird kham. diz kid is a freak man, he da khmer champion at 60-65kg. i wud pay big bucks 2 see him take on a thai champ. dat be da fite of da new millenium. (*_*)

  muay thai & pradal saray fiters have alot of respect 4 each ada. they’re in da same fite game. they like 2 fite & have a passion 4 da sport. & they dnt relly give a dam about da politics. it’s all about da fite. wen u in da ring it’s all about ur skills aint it. ur political views dnt mean jak. it’s ur fiting abilities dat determines victory or defeat.

  yo ernesto, are u the ernesto hoost?. any way i like 2 know hu won da s-1 king cup in thailand. can sum 1 tell me.

• 41 GOD WAR // Aug 23, 2007 at 4:03 pm

  I was suprised to see last fight too when that dicriminated Khmer promoter promoted Mauy Thai. I was rejected by him a few months back when I was asked to train kun khmer.

  Any way Kru Sityodtong, I could answer your simple question. Although , I and that discriminated promoter have some differences, but After all that promoter tried to promote Khmer fighter, all his group were biting his head off. I had some exchanged messsages with those khmer snake students.

  That KHMER PATRIOT was sold that promoter out as well, and lied to everybody that there is no KHMER PROMOTER TO PROMOTE, Yes I know why.. He tried to inviting me to join him, but I told him to fuck himself…

  According to one of those kid in his group told me that KHMER PATRIOT only had a few smoker fights that were it, and claimed to be master of trainer for some loser division. How could you ask everybody to go to stockton???

  I hope I answer your question KRU SITYODTONG. I think the promoter got enough of KUN KHMER..

• 42 KHMER PATRIOT // Aug 23, 2007 at 6:52 pm

  First of all, i am not and i didnt claim to be master of trianer or watever u are accusing me off. GOD OF WAR u are making this up along as you speak u just mad that he reject u. man enough said. we move on now…
  well we never claim that there no khmer promoter, as of right now we need more. there not alot of khmer fighter around MASS or in the U.S anyway…
  I am surprise that khmer promoter promote muay thai. Bro you werent there at the club, so u dont know what happen. and please leave it at that.

  the first time i wrote up there, is to apologize to the guy that one of my bro was saying unessary thing. and if they want to know we do have school in stockton, and ohio. that all
  i live in MASS>… i dont even train anymore… man why u gotta lied about stuff like that.
  i dont benefit from this shit…
  enough of that… i hope i see u some day we have a good talk…
  takecare
  stay safe
  -KHMER PATRIOT

• 43 Rumtum // Aug 23, 2007 at 6:58 pm

  I wonder if those Muay Thai fighters still wear the Khmer Yan (Yantra) sacred language on their head?
  Thanks.

• 44 JON // Aug 23, 2007 at 7:04 pm

  why dont they fight more often, cuz of khmer is not in muay thai world kickbozing, they have a big problem with that name.

  i think KHMER PATRIOT trying to say is that the khmer promoter or any other promter, should go to cambodia and promoter those fighter if they want too. , and i know those khmer fighter dont make big buck, they make top $100 per fight. that becuz of the donation as the fight goes.

  khmer fighter in cambodia dont even have the money to travel, they dont have any support. so they can only compete in the county and sometime promoter from austilia bring some of the top fighter to fight in austilia and bring fighter to fight in cambodia.

  we want them to get to the U.S more money….

  that the situation. they got no money.
  there bearly no khmer fighter in the U.S. beucase there no gym.

  there are very few training place that all…
  it very hard to explain… i guess just to let it flow.
  i love to see fight also.
  btw BIRD KHAM is train in Boran Samay… not pradey serey…
  and he really good at that. he my favorite khmer fighter of all of them.

• 45 Frank // Aug 23, 2007 at 7:11 pm

  anybody into khmer bokator?
  it been a secret art for thousand of years…
  now khmer they decide to share it with the world.
  http://youtube.com/results?search_query=bokator&search=Search

• 46 Rumtm // Aug 23, 2007 at 7:30 pm

  Muay Thai is originated from Khmers. Those Muay Thai fighters still wear the head band of Khmer Yan (Yantra) sacred language around their head.

  Khmers are coming back slowly with their Bokator, Kun Khmer Boran, Pradal Serei etc..

• 47 iron fist // Aug 24, 2007 at 3:52 am

  kun khmer boran be good 4 m.m.a fites.

  dude bokator is kun khmer boran. but diz school of kun khmer boran wud rada call it bokator, dan kun khmer boran. bokator is da name of da stik fiting they use in kun khmer boran. i prefer da old school of kun khmer boran. diz bokator is 2 flashy 4 me.

  cambodia will neva join da W.M.C ( world muay thai council) but don’t u reckon dat there shud be a new belt or title created so dat fiters from thailand & cambodia can fite 4. i zink dat fite fans deserve 2 see da best fite da best. 2 much red tape & politics getting in da way.

  i always hear stories from da old people, dat before da cambodian civil war, khmer & thai fiters use 2 fite each ada all da time, like there was a pro fite circuit betwen da 2 countires. da fites wud draw in big crowds. it was good old fashion friendly rivalry. but now i really dnt see it happening again. it wud be great if it did happen again though.

• 48 Bilo2 // Aug 24, 2007 at 4:32 am

  Khmers don’t care the WMC.

  During the Cambodian Civil War, the Cambodian economy was greatly derailed in which Thailand used the opportunity to monopolize kickboxing and promoted its style, Muay Thai to the world. The Thai have set up an international boxing committee in which almost 100 countries participate which led to why Southeast Asian kickboxing is widely known as Thai boxing. Cambodians have argued there was no such thing as Muay Siam that existed before the name change of Siam to Thailand. At an ASEAN meeting in 1995, Thailand wanted to rename Southeast Asian kickboxing as Muay Thai or Thai Boxing. The Cambodians proposed to rename the sport as “Sovanna Phum” boxing or “SEA Boxing”, which represented Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar. Sovanna Phum means “golden land” in both the Khmer and Thai which came from the language of Pali and refers to mainland Southeast Asia. “SEA” is a popular acronym referring to Southeast Asia. Unfortunately, Thailand would not compromise. In a battle for culture heritage, both countries are not giving up. At the 2005 Southeast Asian Games, Cambodia did not enter the Muay Thai event.

  Recent exposure of Khmer Kickboxing to the western world has come from traveling journalists and tourists.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradal_Serey

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_traditional_wrestling

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokator

• 49 frank // Aug 24, 2007 at 8:32 am

  it not the same as before ever since thai made
  W.M.C.
  khmer fighter will not go ova there and fight , and thai dont want to go to cambodia to fight. because the judge mightnot be fare, only through knock out. but the thing is that even not the reason, khmer fighter dont have any chance to fight around the world, until khmer promoter or any other promote go ova there and sponser them to fight international. that why u see thoe white ppl go to cambodia to fight…. they have money to go ova there and challenge the champoin to fight. and Janpanese do go there to fight too. but never cambodian will go to fight in other contry. cuz the fighter have no money. they dont get pay much. every penny they make goes into the rent, food, support the families and u know khmer family size are… and if they open the gym, the money goes toward the gym. it a sad thing, like EH Phutong, since the the OG everytime he fight rich people donate money for him to fight. they call in and donate the money, but he only get like $25-$100 per fight. thank to the donater he be able to make more money. so most khmer fighter have to fight everyweek. to keep the food running for their family. that why they have moreand 100 fight in there record.
  if theese fighter come to the U.S they will make more money, and dont have to fight as much as they have to fight ova in cambodia. Theya re fighting for there family.
  The best fighters of Cambodia make 25-100
  they got no house , they got no money, the gym they open is free.
  KHmer champion Eh phuntong open his gym, and anybody can go and learn it for free. IT the same every where in cambodia. but if u to the ring to fight. it fare to say that you share some of the fight money toward the club. and im talkiing about 25 or 50 okay nothing big. Most khmer gym are free. if u think just becuz it free and they are suck you are dead wrong. if u dont belive me go ova to cambodia and see it yourself. how can they charge people that go to there club, if those people have no money, they are poor. so by go to the gym and train, it just a like a job for them and it a skill that they learn and than fight to make money to surpport their families.
  they will only charge enough to keep the gym running. i telll you… it the passion that motivate the trainer to do it. because cambodia is poor people dont have job, some end up go to gym to train becuase they willing to fight , because they love the art, and becuase they want to surpport their families.
  im glad now some khmer fighter the new generation get to fight international in austilia so they make a little more money.
  they cant leave the country to fight becuase of those power people they want to come to other country too. those fucker dont even know how to fight but since they are in incharge if they cant com, u cant fight… period.
  If it not becuase of that. u probably see khmer fighter come to the U.S to fight already.
  well excuse my grammar but im sure u can read and understand.

• 50 Rith // Aug 24, 2007 at 9:05 am

  it sad to see and hear khmer promoter promote muay thai, the fucker nned to get ova with his group and stick with his goal. it the people in cambodia that need him the most, people here they have families they make enough money to support them self.why that fucker dont understand.
  The fucking promoter just lost his pride, he just lost everything he stand for.
  MONEY TALKSSS ha….
  i guess it buessiness…. it all about money….
  shame on you. U fucking dum bitch…
  if u have enough of those KUN KHMER group. so what move on, u not a fucking baby, they dotn need u and u dont need them. why should they kiss your ass for, they have people support them and it united states okay, not cambodia so you cant get thing done with every command u call. u not a commander dummm ass.
  why da fuck dont you go ova to Cambodia to sponser those poor fighter, dont tell me a khmer promoter doesnt khmer his people are poor. Man where the fuck u think u coming from.
  i came from the same country as you do, u piss me off.
  as a leader u have to stick to the plan. u have to expect obstilce, people that start bussiness, they are taking the chance to lose money, and everything. so people become rich and people become poor. if u fucker lose a little bit of moneyt and quite how da fuck u gonna get rich?

  Watever u told thoes kun khmer group, whatever u stand for, now u just lost it. you told them to left and than you go right. u fucking dum ass. you are the leader why do you keep changing your word.

  why u do people like u surrive khmer rough? man ….
  Leader have the ability yo lead, u dont have shit, u just a dum fucking guy with some money and a right place and try to do thing that is not right for you.

  despite people give you crap you should go to cambodia and make a difference, that what a leader should do.
  you think khmer general, go and kill some people and become a general… u have to earn your respect and you have earn you way up there. if u jut got up there, your soldier gonna be like who da fuck are you, how da fuck u get up here?
  enough said, fucking shame on you, you lost khmer pride, you lost ervything u stand for, and you lose faces, for your people. u have the ability to help them and u didtn. fucking shame on you.i know there no khmer fihter around. that why u should go to cambodia, but u dum ass not smart enough , instead go promote muay thai, i dont hate muay thai, but for someone to say they hate muay thai, and promoter muay thai , u are a fucking two face, u are a fucking fruad, and u are a fucking devil, you are as fuck up as you could be. everything u do is money, i hope when u died u realize that u cant take money with u. it your pride that people remember, but u dont have shit. as of now if u fucking read this, you gonna died with nothing.

  so get your ass to cambodia and do something, you are one of 13 millions khmer that can bring khmer figher to U.S is it so hard to bring them ova here? or you just want the entire fucking khemr fighers to kiss u ass than u bring them?
  guess what, u fucking dum ass, they have pride. unlike u got nothing expect money… money face.
  dam fucking shame on you, and you should be asham of your self. dont call your self khmer, call you self thai.
  cant belive someone like him can do someothing for cambodia but instead u just go differnet direction.
  you probably not good sticking to your word. that why those kun khmer group caught you and maybe that why they turn and take a different direction. maybe they realize they are being use and lead by a dum ass like u. that why they turn on you.
  they dont need to kiss anybody ass around here. fucking dum ass. those kid are not poor, what u think, that you own them all?
  my suggestion is that u should stick to your word if you plan to trick them…
  that way they wont know that u are TRICKING THEM dummy.

  enough for the day…
  HAVE A NICE DAY…

• 51 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 24, 2007 at 9:16 am

  GOD WAR, thanks for the forward email regarding the conflict between KUN KHMER students and promoter. I could see why he put MAUY THAI show instead and to why that promoter didn’t say anything. I quest, just let khmer bite their hand.

  Regarding KUN KHMER club in LONG BEACH, well, let me tell you all a bit. That club could only survive until today because of the KUN KHMER hiding under MUAY THAI ( Big sign). RON is the promoter for that club didn’t help KUN KHMER at all and I know why. Long Lorn was stand out in the club but didn’t go that far either. There is no point to fight with them, if BAN the trainer take away MUAY THAI, KUN KHMER will fall.

  Back in KORN KING ERA, CHAN REACH CHEA KING ( Khmer king) was THAI’s king godson and lived in THAI kingdom for 7 years after KORN took over the kingship in Cambodia. CHAN REACH CHEA KING lied to THAI KING by took 5000 THAI ARMIES with him to fight KING KORN ( If you khmer could read KORN KING History). It took 5 to 6 years to defeat KING KORN, but remeber, 5000 THAI ARMIES helped to fight or should I said THAI STYLE TO FIGHT?. You can read the rest of your history..

  It take MAUY THAI to win MUAY THAI, So after all King Cub, MAUY THAI WON and the best KHMER FIGHTER LOST and no one put a gun on his head, so stop saying this or that regarding KHMER FIGHT IN THAILAND.

  After 30 years from ROUGE ERA, Cambodia could produce not many good fighters AND they only fight with TOURIST KICKBOXING SMOKERS on their national tv. So how good are those khmer fighters? you can fill in the blank…

  At the end, I’m glad the khmer Promoter promoted MAUY THAI and because of him, one of my amature fight become professional fighter on Main Event.

  Khmer open MAUY THAI club or Khmer promoter promote MAUY THAI, Or perhaps this how they got the idea to why MAUY THAI from Khmer? Khmer history is your people’s word again THAI history. Today where THAILAND’s at compare to Cambodia will speak itself, but Khmer rather blaim on this or that, but at the end KHMER WHO DESTROYED KHMER.. ( My last message)

• 52 jon // Aug 24, 2007 at 9:51 am

  i agree KHMER WHO DESTROYED KHMER, beuae of people like that dum promoter, that why.
  well im happy that one of your fighter become a professional.
  after all it bussiness for him… i guess pride have nothing to do with it. that his point of view.

  between history there always conflict between the two country. let leave it at that and leave it up to fate.
  as for now
  cambodia have BOKATOR… so it dont matter about muay thai or pradey serey…

  BOKATOR IS ONLY BELONG TO CAMBODIA.

  so to khmer brother out there. let just stop argue with them. and just bring BOKATOR and KBACK KUN KHMER BORAN out. those two style has nothing to do with muay thai and pradey serey. so it end this mad ness.
  khmer promoter promte muay thai will he just destroy khmer hope. and hope he happy.

  and no we didnt get muay thai to use in war… but let leave it at that.
  we use bokator and kun khmer boran…
  forget about pradey serey…
  the two art will come out soon.
  it gonna be in history channel and it written by antionio g.

• 53 nopstar // Aug 24, 2007 at 9:59 am

  Jesus I’m glad I can facilitate such animosity and hate. I guess you live and you learn. If I would have know that by writing this post I would have stirred so much deep seated divisiveness among Thai and Khmer I would have left it alone.

  In the end I hope all of your realize none of this matters, there all conventions that your clinging too.

  Personal example, I consider myself a devout Buddhist. I used to have issues with other forms of Buddhism, particularly Zen. My teacher told me that if I was too focused on conventions (rituals, tradition, forms, language etc,) it would be like taking the utmost care to peel a banana perfectly only to eat the peel. If you focus on the external stuff you’ll miss the fruit… you follow?

  Be well.

• 54 Ernesto // Aug 24, 2007 at 11:56 am

  That’s a damn good saying Nop..

• 55 Kote Law Loi // Aug 24, 2007 at 1:08 pm

  Man if you do not like the discusion and do not want to read the responses then BOUNCE MOTHERFUCKER PAI LAO!!! How can you be so facist as to reply to the topic then when others responed say to exchange email, if you don’t like it don’t fuckin read it!!! If you not Thai or Cambodian you won’t understand. You can try but you can’t relate and/or grasp why somebody feel like we feel. And i talk like that cause i walk like that. kochai ma?

• 56 Kote Law Loi // Aug 24, 2007 at 1:15 pm

  I meant hypocritical instead of fascist and besides that nop is right.

• 57 Minh Lam // Aug 24, 2007 at 6:48 pm

  Let me be the voice of reason here. Many people here have said they are not historians, well I am a historian. I majored in Asian Studies at UC Berkeley and I can tell you the story of South East Asian Martial arts. I’ve been to Yunan Province in China. This is where the Thais and the Laotians came from. The Burmese came from Tibet. The Cambodians are native to Southeast Asia. I have been Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam as well. I can say definitively that Kickboxing is a Khmer invention.

  Thais claim to be descendents of the Nanchao and the Dali state of Yunan Province in China. When the Mongolians conquered that part of China that was when the mass migration to present day Thailand. Thais or “Dais” as they are known in China say they are the real Thais, which they are. Modern day Thailand is made of a mix of ethnic groups. Southern Thais have Malaysian/Indonesia ancestry. Central and northeast Thailand have Cambodian Ancestry. ONLY THAIS that look Chinese, meaning they have beedy eyes and light skin are really ethnically Thai. The rest or of other ancestry.

  The Angkorian Empire ruled South Vietnam in the East to Burma in the West To Thailand in the North. This is why this area of the world share the same fighting style. If you want to know the history of Muay Thai, check the Wai Kru. This dance does not exist with the “Dai” people in China, nor the Vietnamese in Southern Vietnam, nor the Tibetans in China. This dance only exists in areas once controlled by the Angkorian Empire. All the stone temples you find in Thailand were created by the Khmers. These temples are the origin of South East Asian Martial Arts. Thais are from Southern China so there building are made of wood like the Chinese buildings. Khmers on the other hand made buildings from stone.

  So though the Thais are the best in kickoxing right, it was indeed invented by the Khmers. Many Thais must recognize that there ancestry may be Khmer. For thais who are light skin, they are the ones who can rightfully call themselves ehtnically thai.

  By the Way. Eh Phoutong speaks Thai. Fought in Thailand 6 times and is 5-1 on Thai soil.

  So people grow up. This is the history. If you want to know the history of Muay Thai, follow the Wai Kru and follow the ethnic Thais’s history.

  By the way, the written language is based on the Khmer written language

• 58 Minh // Aug 24, 2007 at 10:15 pm

  BTW my last post is meant to be informative and nothing else. As I said, the Khmers likely invented the art, but the Thais are best at it. But in a way that is not necessarily correct. Both modern day Cambodia and Thailand are descendents from the Angkorian Empire. Many Thais, especially in the Surin Province are of direct Khmer descent. So in a way the Thais did invent the art.

  Also, please understand that this Thai and Khmer thing is out of control. I was in both country and the hatred is profound. The Khmer/Thai history is a bitter one. They need to bury the hatchet and move on. The history is one bitter rivalry. I understand it well. It is not easy but both side have to move on. In a way it is kind of sad. Both countries are remnants of the Angkorian Empire. To a certain extent hey are brothers. As I posted, many Thais are of Khmer descent and the culture of Thailand much more resembles the culture in Cambodia than the Culture of the “Dais” in the Yunan province China. For a more complete history of Thais before the Lanna, Sukothai, and Aayuthya, people here should look up Nanchao and Dali. Go to the Yunan Province in Southern China by the Thailand Border. Ask the People about the “Dais.” You will see that they are more different from the modern day Thais than Thais from modern day Khmers.

  I respect the Khmers for not joining WMC. I think the Thais are wrong in calling Kickboxing Muay Thai when the Khmers, Thais, Burmese, and Laotians all do the same art. The main reason for calling it Muay Thai is about money and tourism. If there is legitmate proof that Muay Thai originated solely from the people who immigrated to modern day Thailand from Southern China, then I would love for that person to post it. But the art is everywhere where there is Angkorian descent and not where there are “Dai” descent (Southern China). I have spoken to WMC representives in Thailand. The main reason why they don’t want to change the name is, and here is a quote “Everyone knows what Muay Thai is, who knows what South East Kickboxing is?”

  BTW it is also sad to here people, especially farangs, saying they do not give a crap about Muay Thai’s history, whether it is Khmer Origin or Thai Origin. This is totally disrespectful to a proud culture. I hope people who have this view are not ever allowed into a Muay Thai gym again. Certainly these people should not ever where the mongkol and do the ram muay. And muay thai without the ram muay is just kick boxing.

  Oh BTW:
  Frank, If you have the address of Eh Phouton’s gym in Cambodia, let me know. Please post it here. Hopefully, I will be able to travel to Thailand and Cambodia next February. I will be in Penom Penh and then fly from there to BKK. I like to meet Eh Phoutong and see how the training is different from Muay Thai training in Thailand.

• 59 Rumtum // Aug 25, 2007 at 5:15 am

  To Sityodtong of Somerville:

  Where did you get that lying history from? From the Thai history written by Thais?

  I read the Spanish and the Khmer history of the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea, there is no such story as you stated.

  The Spanish said the Thai King ordered the Khmer King (Ang Chan Reachea) to hand over the Khmer white elephant to him, but the Khmer King (Ang Chan Reachea) refused.
  The Thai King was furious and he wanted the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea’s head.

  The Thai King made up a false story by lying that the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea died and he got the Khmer King’s head. In the meantime, the Spanish were looking for the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea and they found the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea in Laos. The Spanish were very happy to find the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea alive.

  You should read the below book of the Khmer King Ang Chan Reachea true history written by the Spanish.

  http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v161/simoneek/King/?action=view&current=cambodiabygabrieldesanantonio.jpg

• 60 Rumtum // Aug 25, 2007 at 6:12 am

  To Sytyodong of Somerville:

  One more thing,
  When Burma captured Thailand in 1548-1592 and 1760-1767,
  Khmer Kings took Khmer armies to help the Thai Kings to kick Burma out of Thailand.
  Should I say KHMER STYLE TO FIGHT?

• 61 Minh // Aug 25, 2007 at 12:30 pm

  Guys if you want to know the history and culture of South East Asia, its pretty simple. Go before Sukothai.

  Again Burmese are from Tibet, Thais (Dais) are from Yunan Province in Southern China (They are still there), and Laotian also from southern China. Khmers are native to South East Asia. These disparate group came together only one time in antiquity, and that was during the Khmer ruled Angkorian Empire. Much of the Culture in Thailand, Burma, South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos comes from this period. These culture all have “Muay Thai.” The Dai people in China have martial arts but the ceremonies and all the cultural stuff around a Muay Thai fight is not present in China.

  And Thais of Thailand today have to realize that being of Thai Nationaliy, that is, a citizen of Thailand does not mean you all share the same ethnic history. Southern Thais, Central Thais, and Northern Thais come from different backgrounds. Thais from the Surin Province, where Tony Jaa and Buakaw is from can easily trace their history to Khmer origin. The “real” Thais, are still in Southern China. They are call the Dais. They will tell you they are the real Thais. Hey that is what they tell me. Not a single one of them look like Buakaw. They look Chinese, as most Northern Thais look. So Thailand really is an empire and not necessarily a good way to define ethnic groups. Therefore to say Muay Thai originated in the geographical area of Thailand may not be wrong, to say it originated with the original Dais from Southern China seems to me wrong.

  With that said. The Khmers also have to realize that certain groups in Thailand, Laos, Burma, and even Vietnam have claims to the Angkorian Empire cultural heritage as they do, whether these people know it all not. Modern Cambodia, though the closest relatives to the Angkorian culture, is not the sole disaparates.

• 62 Minh // Aug 25, 2007 at 12:32 pm

  I read people talk about historical sources a lot. THe real historical source of early South East Asia were all written by the Chinese. Funan and Chenla, the nation states in SEA before the Angkorian Empire, is only known to us through the accounts of Chinese merchants. I believe also that much of what we know from the Angkorian Empire is known through Chinese sources.

• 63 SITYODTONG, SOMERVILE // Aug 25, 2007 at 12:54 pm

  dont hate me because Im gay

  Im not even Thai Im just gay sorry guys

• 64 JON // Aug 25, 2007 at 7:32 pm

  end of arguement lol thank alot . that info really help clear thing out
  Minh thank. well everyone have a nice day…

• 65 Rumtum // Aug 25, 2007 at 7:32 pm

  To Sityodong of Somerville:

  No one hates you because you’re gay.

  I just want to enlighten you and those who don’t know the true Khmer and Thai history.

• 66 Rumtum // Aug 25, 2007 at 7:33 pm

  To Minh:

  Thai were Tai not Dai.
  Tai people escaped from their native land of Nanchao during the Mongol invasion. Khmer Kings allowed those Tai refugees to settle in Khmer Land. Later in 1238, two Tai chieftains rebelled against Khmers when Khmers became weak. Tai took over Khmer city of Sukhotei and changed it to Sukhothai and kicked Khmers out of Sukhotei.

  Not all Khmer history and culture came from the Chinese missioners. Part of Khmer history and culture were carved on the stone wall of Khmer temples in Cambodia.

  If everyone visit Thai pagoda in Thailand, will see Khmer Yan (Yantra) written in Khmer language hang on the wall of each Thai pagoda. Thais knew that Khmer Yan (Yantra) is not Thai, just look at the link below. But Thais still claimed Khmer Yan (Yantra) as Thai. Thais can’t change Khmer sacred language written on Yan (Yantra), because it’s Khmer sacred language to protect them from the bad luck.

  The problem between Khmer and Thai culture is that Thai never give any credit to Khmer people for using Khmer property.

  http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/Horitexan/Thai_Temple_Tattoo.jpg

• 67 Minh // Aug 25, 2007 at 11:02 pm

  Rumtum,

  YOu are right. Tai not Dai. But I am trying to phoneticize it the way the people in Yunan province does it. I did not mean that all South East Asian History is recorded by the Chinese but much are. I have been to Siem Riep and seen the stone carvings.

  In any event, you should know that the Tais in China are much different than the Thais in Modern day Thailand. Nanchao was actually Dali by the time of the Mongolian invasion.

  Most of the Stone temples in Thailand are actually Khmer temples. The Thais, because of their Chinese influence built wooden temples.

  Either way the temples are the origin of the Ram Muay and Muay Thai itself.

  Again, many Thais today can probably trace their heritage back to Khmer ancestry. Buakaw and Tony Jaa are examples. I wished they can just settle their differences.

  The hatred between Thai and Khmers are much deeper than cultural theft. I really don’t think is theft since so many Thais are of Khmer descent. Thailand has in one way or another affected Cambodian politics for over 500 years. I don’t want to get into that, but its a new millenium. The Cambodians need the Thais to help develop the country through trade and aid. Khmers must give the Thais credit for marketing Kickboxing and Thai Culture (which is much influenced by Khmer Culture). Other Asian countries have sold their cultures out. Thailand and Combodians have embraced their culture. I respect both peoples for that. This is just wishful thinking but I like both peoples.

  I just wanted to add my two cents to this debate. I am all about intellectual honesty. I am Chinese so could care less about who’s art is it. I know SEA history through my Chinese history. Nanchao and Dali I know quite well as I did my research in the Yunan province.

  The Thais did not invent Muay Thai. Kickboxing belongs to all the descendents of the Angkorian Empire. This means people in Loas, Southern Vietnam, Burma, Cambodia, and Thailand. The Thais and the WMC are wrong for what they are doing

• 68 Frank // Aug 26, 2007 at 11:24 am

  MINH
  i am honor that you come in here and clear our history out.

  i personaly dont have the address to Eh Phuthong gym address bro.

  but guess what if you go to Cambodia, Phnom Phen,

  ask any MOTTO texi driver they know where his gym is. lol that the best thing. and im sure u can track him down it should be easy.

  im pretty sure his trainer is not that differ from muay thai becasue it prodey serey. but khmer people tend to use more elbow than any other country in the world. that the differ from us to them.

  regard KUN KHMER BORAN and BOKATOR
  you should check this two art out too.

  bro i promise you that you never seen anything like it. it not and it doesnt like like muay thai or predey serey…

  if fact predey serey and muay thai are just a little brieft techni to KUH KHMER BORAN…

  BOKATOR can be found in Cambodia, and like i said any MOTTO texi driver know where it is. they are good with places and expecially a well know places like EH PHUTHONG GYM. he the best fighter ofcourse they love him. but sometime they think he accept money and stuff they throw glass bottole at him… well later found that he couldnt fight that much becuase he got bit by a dog.

  if u really want Eh PHthong address i can probably get it for you… but it will be easy if you jusg go to PNH and ask MOTTO driver

  if u live in CALIFORNIA go check stockton school out. it not like a gym… but these art are master to family only…
  they did not share it to the world until last year….
  the reason they been hinding it,

  becuase past king target all general and best fighter art to be kill so there will be no rebellion.

  it a fact of khmer history. not many people know that. im sure u are not aware of that either… if u want me to contact u please leave your email.i am happily to speak to you. after all into history. love it
  takecare bro
  -FRANK

• 69 IM FRANK // Aug 26, 2007 at 11:26 am

  MINH
  i am honor that you come in here and clear our history out.

  i personaly dont have the address to Eh Phuthong gym address bro.

  but guess what if you go to Cambodia, Phnom Phen,

  ask any MOTTO texi driver they know where his gym is. lol that the best thing. and im sure u can track him down it should be easy.

  im pretty sure his trainer is not that differ from muay thai becasue it prodey serey. but khmer people tend to use more elbow than any other country in the world. that the differ from us to them.

  regard KUN KHMER BORAN and BOKATOR
  you should check this two art out too.

  bro i promise you that you never seen anything like it. it not and it doesnt like like muay thai or predey serey…

  if fact predey serey and muay thai are just a little brieft techni to KUH KHMER BORAN…

  BOKATOR can be found in Cambodia, and like i said any MOTTO texi driver know where it is. they are good with places and expecially a well know places like EH PHUTHONG GYM. he the best fighter ofcourse they love him. but sometime they think he accept money and stuff they throw glass bottole at him… well later found that he couldnt fight that much becuase he got bit by a dog.

  if u really want Eh PHthong address i can probably get it for you… but it will be easy if you jusg go to PNH and ask MOTTO driver

  if u live in CALIFORNIA go check stockton school out. it not like a gym… but these art are master to family only…
  they did not share it to the world until last year….
  the reason they been hinding it,

  becuase past king target all general and best fighter art to be kill so there will be no rebellion.

  it a fact of khmer history. not many people know that. im sure u are not aware of that either… if u want me to contact u please leave your email.i am happily to speak to you. after all into history. love it
  takecare bro
  -FRANK

• 70 Rumtum // Aug 26, 2007 at 5:21 pm

  To Minh:

  What did you say? I don’t hear you! LOL!

  “Khmers must give the Thais credit for marketing Kickboxing and Thai Culture (which is much influenced by Khmer Culture)”???????????????????????????????????????????????

  Do you know why Khmers had to take Thais to the world court for Khmer Preah Vihear temple?
  Let me tell you why, because Thais claimed that Preah Vihear temple belongs to them. Do you understand a different between “Belong” and “Influence”?
  The world court ordered Khmer Preah Vihear temple belongs to Khmers, because Thais have no clue about the true history.

  You know what, if Thais can just admit like you said that “Thai culture is much influence by Khmer culture”, I’ll be proud of Thai people.
  But unfortunately, Thais never ever admit such thing that their culture is influenced by Khmer culture.

  We, Khmers don’t care about Muay Thai is taken to the world. We, Khmer are proud of what we have and what we are. We don’t steal anyone property and claim as our own like Thais did. One day, the world will find out the truth and guess who will be hurtful and shameful.

• 71 JON // Aug 26, 2007 at 7:34 pm

  RUMTUM

  i really agree with u bro…

  plus thai and vietnam are pushing there border into our land everyday to make there land a bigger place to live.

  all we are saying just give us the credit….

  than we wouldnt be any trouble like this.

  i guess there alway a good and a bad guy….

• 72 big shlong from hong kong // Aug 27, 2007 at 2:14 am

  i’m a muay thai-pradal saray fan, but im not stupid, i know dat muay thai is a thailand version of cambodia’s pradal saray. 2 me fiting is da same evry where in da world. all human being fite da same. we punch, kik, knee, elbow & wrestle. but it’s da culture, custom & tradition dat mke it unique 2 a country or ethnic group.

  dats why muay thai & pradal saray look da same, coz it’s da same, but pradal saray is da original. it’s so plain 2 see, da custom & traditions of muay thai are of khmer origin. da thai are from southern china but u dnt see any original thai culture & custom in muay thai. jus da khmer custom & tradition. even da muay thai fiters tattoos are khmer tattoos.

  wen i started training muay thai, evry body told me it was thai, but wen i did sum research i found out a bout pradal saray. & all da connection make sense, evry zing clik 4 me. so now i know dat muay thai is thailand version of khmer pradal saray, but so wat! dats all good. i dnt like muay thai any less, jus means i have a better understanding of it & also i appreciate pradal saray. dat means more fites 2 watch. (*_*)

  funny zing is alot of muay thai people are ignorant of da tru history & develoment of da art, jus like i was. jus good 2 know da truth. i wonder why my trainers did’nt tell me da truth. may be they did’nt know or they did know but did’nt want 2 tell me.

  muay thai have nuzzing 2 fear from being connected 2 cambodia’s pradal saray. muay thai have nuzzing 2 loose but pradal saray have evry zing 2 gain. may be it can be a good thing. it can get rid of da animosity & fiters from both countries can go bak 2 doing wat they do best & dat is fite.

• 73 Bilo2 // Aug 27, 2007 at 6:56 am

  Thank you Rumtum for your detail explanation, I agree with you.

  Maybe Muay Thai is taken to the world, but Muay Thai will never be made to the Olympic sport game, because the Olympic charter forbids any kind of sport that has its name of its own country.

  Khmer boxing will rise again; it’s only a matter of time and money. I’m not a boxing fan, but after reading this guy article, he made me want to learn boxing

  http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=552

• 74 Minh // Aug 27, 2007 at 2:51 pm

  Thanks for all you comments. As you can see I am trying to be peace maker. I might not be Khmer, but over a 1/4 of my dad’s side of the Family were killed by the Khmer Rouge. I still have family in Cambodia. I only discovered the Truth about Muay Thai because I went all over Southern Asia tracing my family’s history from China to Cambodia to Vietnam. Having said that I have spent time in Thailand I love the people there. I just wished the two people can get along, especially once they realized that many of them come from the same ancestry.

  I am also aware of recent history. The Thais have a lot to answer to with their involvement in Cambodia and even Vietnam the last 50 years or so, but I think its better of both sides move on. I hope politics don’t separate people. Trust me, as an economist, Cambodia would benefit greatly if they improve their relations with the Thais. Yes, I understand that the Cambodians have been wronged by their neighbors lately. Next to the Africans, Khmer history over the last 300 years or so is the most tragic.The Cambodian’s have made their peace with the Chinese, who are investing heavily in Cambodia right now, but making peace with the Thai’s and the Vietnamese will go a long way economically. For their own sake, Cambodia needs to make peace with Thailand even if they were the ones wronged.

  RUMTUM,
  I know the Thais have made ridiculous claims. They claim they built Angkor Wat when the city Angkor Wat is in is called “Siem Riep” or Syam Defeated. But understand politicians on both sides are playing off the historical hatred between the two people, its too long to get into here, but trust me on that.

  If my life goes according to plan in the next ten years or so, I will start a business in Cambodia to help the local economy so my heart is with the Khmers so that is why I try to convince them that peace is the way to go. The truth will take of itself over time.

  Frank,

  I am very familiar with Bokator. I actually have the address of Mr. Kimseam (he might be on the show “Human Weapons” soon) in Penom Penh. I am still debating if I should study Pradal Serey in Cambodia or Bokator. Bokator is better for self-defense, but Pradal Serey is so much more fun. But thanks for the info.

  I live in San Francisco so Stockton is far away, but I heard their was a Khmer guy name Kenyata who teaches at 5th & Harrison, near Fight and Fitness. I have not had a Chance to check it out since I have been working so hard lately, but if anyone knows about a Khmer Boxing Gym in San Francisco, please post.

• 75 Minh 2007 // Aug 27, 2007 at 2:52 pm

  Thanks for all you comments. As you can see I am trying to be peace maker. I might not be Khmer, but over a 1/4 of my dad’s side of the Family were killed by the Khmer Rouge. I still have family in Cambodia. I only discovered the Truth about Muay Thai because I went all over Southern Asia tracing my family’s history from China to Cambodia to Vietnam. Having said that I have spent time in Thailand I love the people there. I just wished the two people can get along, especially once they realized that many of them come from the same ancestry.

  I am also aware of recent history. The Thais have a lot to answer to with their involvement in Cambodia and even Vietnam the last 50 years or so, but I think its better of both sides move on. I hope politics don’t separate people. Trust me, as an economist, Cambodia would benefit greatly if they improve their relations with the Thais. Yes, I understand that the Cambodians have been wronged by their neighbors lately. Next to the Africans, Khmer history over the last 300 years or so is the most tragic.The Cambodian’s have made their peace with the Chinese, who are investing heavily in Cambodia right now, but making peace with the Thai’s and the Vietnamese will go a long way economically. For their own sake, Cambodia needs to make peace with Thailand even if they were the ones wronged.

  RUMTUM,
  I know the Thais have made ridiculous claims. They claim they built Angkor Wat when the city Angkor Wat is in is called “Siem Riep” or Syam Defeated. But understand politicians on both sides are playing off the historical hatred between the two people, its too long to get into here, but trust me on that.

  If my life goes according to plan in the next ten years or so, I will start a business in Cambodia to help the local economy so my heart is with the Khmers so that is why I try to convince them that peace is the way to go. The truth will take of itself over time.

  Frank,

  I am very familiar with Bokator. I actually have the address of Mr. Kimseam (he might be on the show “Human Weapons” soon) in Penom Penh. I am still debating if I should study Pradal Serey in Cambodia or Bokator. Bokator is better for self-defense, but Pradal Serey is so much more fun. But thanks for the info.

  I live in San Francisco so Stockton is far away, but I heard their was a Khmer guy name Kenyata who teaches at 5th & Harrison, near Fight and Fitness. I have not had a Chance to check it out since I have been working so hard lately, but if anyone knows about a Khmer Boxing Gym in San Francisco, please post.

• 76 Kote Law Loi // Aug 27, 2007 at 3:25 pm

  Ok, 1st, to Mr.Mihn “Mr.History Books”. Kickboxing is khmer invention?? Kickboxing is a human invention. Is it not possible that some earlier civilization fought with hand and feet? No of couse not mr. history books!!! Khmer created that. And if if thai boxing is a branch of some deformed mutated khmer boxing tree(WHICH IT MOST DEFINETLY IS NOT) khmer still suck ass at muay. Muay thai means thai boxing. Khmer cannot create muay thai for they are not thai, Kochai mai? The fact is thai boxers are the best at muay thai because this is the land in which it was founded, I am not saying fighting was created there but muay thai definetley was. Who are known the world over for strength stamina technique and overall execution of training and fighting in kick fighting??? THAILAND!!!! Who births and breeds the best kick fighters??? Thailand!!! WHERE WAS MUAY THAI BORN?? THAILAND!!! So khmer may infact have their own version but they surely have no place with their name next to muay thai. Let’s be real, there are no champions coming from cambodia, chai ma?? they might be close to the border but that’s a complete and total cop out. If your genes are so mighty and all that bullshit then why can’t cambo produce decent fighters and stop making excuses that all the thai fighters are secretly i cambo. BULLSHIT!!!! That means your country and enviroment is so shitty that they came over to thailand just to evolve?? JING PAO!??? Is that so? Ya’ll are stupid. E KWAI!!! and by the way FUCK PURMA!!!!!! May they die slow and horrible deaths except for my brother Burma(T).

  and DUM DUM, I mean Cum sum, or Wonton whatever you call yourself. Of course you read thai history written by thais. HEA ALAIWAH?? Am I suppose to read american history by african??? Or French history from japan?? E KWAI DUAY!!! Stop being so fucking jealous that shit is unbecoming!!!

  Think about it. Your on a site called mymuaythai.com, not mykhmerboran.com!!! Stop shitting on people. Go back to your third world shit hole and make something of yourselves. Bitching and crying about other countries accomplishment won’t get you recognized for anything except being a bunch of sucka ass nobodies with nothing but some temples and shit.
  AND IF IN FACT KHMER INFLUENCED THAI BOXING AND KHMER TRUELY INVENTED IT (WHICH THEY DID NOT) IT”S YOUR FAULT FOR SUCKING AT IT SO BAD NOBODY PAY YOU ANY MIND!!! AND YOU SHOULD FEEL STUPID THAT SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING THAT YOU CREATED 1 million Times better than you!!!!

  Even vietnam got more champions than you!!!! MEUNG I KWWWWAAAAIIIII!!!!!
  THY CHA CHA DAI MAI??!!?

• 77 Minh // Aug 27, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  Kote Law,

  Why are you attacking me? You think I have something against Thailand? I love it there. The people there are great, the food is excellent, the beaches are beautiful. I love Thailand because the people there respect their culture. I wish China, Vietnam, and Korea can say the same. I am saying this even though I am Chinese.

  I have said that the Thais are originally from Yunan–the descendent of the Nanchao and the Dali empire. Am I wrong?

  I have said that modern Thailand is really an empire made up of people of many different ethnic origin, including Khmer. Am I wrong? Are people from Surin Province, including Buakaw and Tony Jaa not of Khmer descent?

  Wasn’t Thailand formerly part of the Angkorian empire?

  Doesn’t the Ram Muay have Khmer origin? Even if Muay Thai was invented by the descendents of the people from Southern China, was the Ram Muay? Is Muay Thai really Muay Thai without the Ram Muay?

  Isn’t the Thai written language partly based on the Khmer script?

  Am I wrong? Or is it that you can’t handle truth.

  YOu seem to be so proud of being Thai. Maybe you can enlighten me about your people’s history?

  I have been to Yunan (China), Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam. I went to these places because I study their economics, politics, culture, and history. This is first hand research. I may be wrong, but the history I presented is what I learned on my travels. Since you are Thai, have you made the trek to Southern China to learn about your cultural heritage?

  Anybody can say they are proud of being this and that. I am of Chinese descent my family is from Teochow China (The same city that Taksin the Great’s family is from). You ever heard of Taksin the Great? Have you ever taken time to study your people’s history and culture? It is a great history. Come back to me when you have. I have a sense you know nothing about your own history. Sad that a foreigner like me know more aobut Thai history, politics, and economics than a Thai.

  BTW if genes are the reasons why Cambodians are not Muay Thai Champions, how do you explain Buakaw? You think he he has more in common with you or with Eh Phoutong. You might go to Southern China, look a the Tai, people, your people and ask why don’t any of them look like Buakaw and why do they look so much like me, a Chinamen.

• 78 Rumtum // Aug 27, 2007 at 8:32 pm

  To: Kote Law Loi

  WOW WOW WOW !!! Hold your horse Mr. Junta! You’re completely blind and out of control. This site is Mymuaythai.com, but the subject is Kun Khmer Boran!! Open your big eyes and read all comments before acting like a foul junta!!!

  All you can say is Muay Thai from Thailand and the land was found, that’s it, that’s all?
  Do you know why the world court ordered your dumb ass out of the Khmer temple, because Thai like you who have no clue about the true history and always acted like a foul junta!!

  The French also took Thais to the international court for copying their Louis Vouitton. Thailand now is not allowed to show anymore fake Louis Vouitton on the street of Thailand. The French have to hire their own detectives to survey their product in Thailand.

  Thailand was well known as “Copy Cat” country in the 80s and the 90s. Thailand stole and copied things from other country and started to patent or claim as their own.

  Recently, the Thai junta gov’t has used Compulsory Licensing ‘breaking the patent’ against American Abbott drung Kaletra and Merck Frosst drug Efavirenz and changed the names to Aluvia in Thai. Abbott and Merck Frosst have to blacklist Thailand from the news drugs.

  The tourists and journalists who visited Cambodia, they already knew about Khmer martial arts just like this guy Antonio Graceffo who wrote the Khmer Bokator article.

  Khmer boxing is unique; no other country can compare with Khmers. The music plays during the fight, the traditional Khmer tattoos on the fighters, the Khmer band head of Yan (Yantra) on the fighters are all written in Khmer sacred language. All these, Thais stole from Khmers and named as Muay Thai.
  Thais can’t change the Khmer sacred language on Yan (Yantra) because the Khmer sacred language is protecting them from the bad luck.

• 79 Rumtum // Aug 27, 2007 at 8:33 pm

  To Minh:

  Are you trying to make peace by wiping out Khmer culture? And tell Khmers to give credit to Thais because some of your families were killed by the KR?
  You know wh