I need some advice from you guys. The session in which I train is supposed to be a non-beginner class. The idea is that you should have all your fundamentals down solid, at least that’s the concept. Unfortunately you’re going to have scheduling conflicts and people coming when they shouldn’t be. Our gym isn’t very good about telling people they should be in the beginner class.
So anyway, we do a fair amount of sparring or as my trainer Nuengsiam calls it “teh moo” (literally translated kicking the pig) I don’t even want to know where that comes from. Because we’ve got people of varying skill levels, the sparring is all over the map. There a good deal of flailers, maybe one asshole occasionally.
We’ve got this guy who started coming recently, an absolute human specimen. He’s a ripped 6′4″, 260 lbs and 0 control. It’s quite possibly one of the worst combinations to have in a flailer. We’re all lucky he isn’t an asshole or we might all be crippled by know.
Nuengsiam recommendation to him was to focus on speed, I about crapped myself when I heard him suggest that. The issue isn’t his speed, if anything by kicking faster his kicks will land much harder. You have to understand his legs are enormous; they’ve got a lot of momentum behind them.
We don’t have anyone big enough to spar with him, those who choose risk getting wrecked. How do you teach someone control? We all tell him to take some off of his kicks, but it doesn’t really help.
You guys have any suggestions? Have you ever experienced anything like this?
27 responses so far ↓
1 Jom // Oct 15, 2007 at 2:25 am
If he can control his stability, and able to kick very fast; he will be an absolute terror in the ring. he could even be a lumphini champ in no time. terrifying thought.
2 Anonymous // Oct 15, 2007 at 3:53 am
have the guy train with opponents of similair height, weight isnt really important while training.
but then again, guys his posture arent very rare in holland. if u dont have a opponent his height, have him train with someone heavier that can atleast have his attacks so he can
make his combinations.
when sparring, he should really leave the speed factor out indeed.
instead, he should try to apply the combinations learned from training as
accurate and precise as possible. this is atleast the way how we train new people.
rhythem and execution before power and speed.
3 souvik // Oct 15, 2007 at 3:59 am
Get him a ring-fight soon.
He might start thinking about his control and efficiency after a couple of good fights, especially if he doesn’t do as well. And if he does do well for his weight category, well then maybe you guys should learn a thing or two from him about broken timing and bad control. As far as I can rationalize, pretty technique is secondary to kicking butt, isn’t it?
4 Ian // Oct 15, 2007 at 5:54 am
Yeah, I just started muay thai with my friend who is 6′6″ and I’m 5′10″ 160lbs and apparently the closest to his height and weight next to this 6′ guy who’s 40…..
I just about dislocated my shoulder holding the pads for him. The key for their development I think is speed and agility. Big guys that are quick will do amazingly well in their competition. They’ve already got the force and power from their size. If they can develop very fast rounds and teeps and be light on their feet than they’ll become demons in the ring. I’m trying to get my friend to do alot of running, rope work and pad work to get his legs functional for this reason.
5 Dii Mak // Oct 15, 2007 at 7:24 am
The main problem is in the attitude/approach. When someone refuses to be taught, what can you really do? I mean, I have seen and sparred with big guys who are relaxed and have great control. They are open, as anyone should be, to critique on how to be better.
Some people who flail and have no control, make up reasons why they perform the way they do. Some people will say ” I am too big” of “I have too much mass”, that is why I am slow, that is why I hit so hard. The problem is, their technique is usually bad, they are not relaxed at all. Hell, some of these guys who are huge even get pissed taking a leg kick from a 130 pound dude and starting flailing and wailing away. You hit me, I will hit you back harder even though I weigh 100 pds more.. What is up with that?
One suggestion was right, put someone in who is as close to their size as possible. Ideally someone with good skill, and let them take some punishment as well. Some of us know a guy who runs an Oakland gym, tall ass guy, that would handle the huge flailers in this way. Some huge flailers got better for it.
I think the main thing is, the person needs to relax and be told it is about control. A suggestion here that they are told to work combinations etc.. was good. Another suggestion may be to have the trainer video people in a sparring session. Not hard to do and show them just what they look like, flailing away on someone so much smaller. That can be an eye opener.
6 strongboy // Oct 15, 2007 at 7:32 am
If he is to sparr have him momve with one of the best in the class only the top students and or the KRU or teacher. and also teach him as you sparr never let it be full on sparring. let him do something then tll himalright you want to do this after get him thinking as appose to just throwing.
but seriously if your that afraid of being hurt you should not spar with him.
and tell your teacher.big guys like that are great for cliching. but reagular sparring their bone density is to much sometimes so it dosent work out for you unless you are really good and can control there pace.
I eperienced both when I was first starting Out I walk into thai camp at 155 coming from powerlifting background had enormus strenght and was way bigger then most of the thai fighters who ranged from 105- 135 most did not want sparr with me all wanted to clinch with me.
It hurt my feelings, but I understood I lacked control at the time. and for them to match me they would have to go full force.
but eventually I was yelled at long enough
and I started getting it and watching (good)people sparr alos helps.
Now I can control just about anybody inthe ring that I want to regardless of size. with few exception like giants. and also I must mention that there are people in which there are no benifits in sparring with them.
buakaw sparring semi shilts would not make sense cause it would never help buakaw game.
he is to short and does not have the bone density for a real fight for someone that size he might as well just pick up a weapon instead.
so it might not be worth your time to sparr someone that big.
7 Tong Po // Oct 15, 2007 at 9:02 am
If the guy you are talking about is who I think- my suggestion is for him to spar MAINLY (if not only) with larger guys. There is not much to gain with sparring with 140 pound guys. Blocking kicks from a monster like the one pictured isn’t very fun- let alone eating them. There are a few “bigger guys” (near 6 ft. probably less than 200 lbs.) although not as big as that guy they should provide better competition.
8 Brave New Savage // Oct 15, 2007 at 9:46 am
Control is about timing plus accuracy. Focusing too much on strength and power can produce body tension that will
1) interfere with the rhythm and readiness for good timing, and
2) prevent the attacking weapon from smoothly tracking the target to land with accuracy.
He should be asked to try to strike with the *softest* kicks possible with good timing. The more comfortably and easily he can score with soft kicks, the more easy it will be for him to eventually land crushing bombs at will. The most powerful attacks are timed so that the opponent is essentially walking into them.
And for his classmates:
He is an opportunity to practice your defense and composure for encounters with opponents far more powerful than you. You can be nimble, and playful with the lumbering beast, tiring him out.
“…only makes us stronger”
9 Tong Po // Oct 15, 2007 at 9:56 am
Also, on a side note, the picture of the monster dog above is a whippet with a genetic disorder that promotes abnormal muscular development.
Just thought you guys might want to know…
10 stephen // Oct 15, 2007 at 11:06 am
haha .. . i know who you’re talking about . .. i saw him in action on thursday evening for the first time .. .i started cracking up when i saw the pic of the dog you posted . . .lol. . . anyways . . yea he’s pretty intense. .. maybe i should put him in place. . . haha . . nah i’d get rolled over. . .6′2 170 vs 64 260 . .haha
11 stephen // Oct 15, 2007 at 11:07 am
ps . . .masato’s the shit nopstar
12 Ernesto // Oct 15, 2007 at 11:39 am
The one problem with some people as well (especially beginners) is that they want to go hard but not get hit as hard and will actually ask you not to hit so hard hahaha.. tell them they will get hit as hard as they are hitting.. That being said there are great guys to spar, such as, Nop. Relaxed, technical, controlled and not a douche bag.. See ya Thursday..
13 Ruts // Oct 15, 2007 at 1:39 pm
I’m usually in the position to spar with the new folks who are physical giants. I’m 6′3 205 so I’m not a small guy, but I assist in the begining class and usually am paired with two individuals 6′4 and 6′6, both of them easily in the 250lb range. Both of them are genetic freaks since they have little to no fat on them.
In hopes of keeping my head attached to my shoulders I always start out with 3-5 rounds of ‘1-hitter quitters’. After that they are usually tired enough where they are not trying to kick me at full strength and more willing to work on form over power.
14 R to the H // Oct 15, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Yeah. I know the guy your talking about. I think it is partly an ego thing for some people. I mentioned to him to ease up on the kicks because they were smashing through my blocks. His reply was, “I am only using 10 percent of my power.” What?! Well if it is only ten percent, then that’s amazing. However, there is a ego factor involved…ie “You better not try to hang with me cause I’m soo powerful…”
15 Muaythaistuff // Oct 15, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Hey,,, let make him spar with Nuengsiam, i think he should be the one who receive those fast kick …
any way, i think you should talk to the gym owner .. everything should be solved at the main cause
,,,, fighting ,, !!
cheer!!
Muaythaistuff
16 Muaythaistuff // Oct 15, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Jach killed the Giant
175 lbs VS 293.33 lbs
A GREAT KNOCKOUT MATCH FEATURING TWO TOUGH MUAY THAI FIGHTERS: ‘MIGHTY’ MO vS. KAOKLAI KANNENSORING.
17 Muaythaistuff // Oct 15, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Oh my god !! i forgot to give the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnkKuI-YAY
Cheer!!
18 Anonymous // Oct 15, 2007 at 11:26 pm
if he is as big as you all say than i doubt his cardio is strong. That being said i think we all know what happens to fighters who are tired. They drop their hands and just kind of wander about the ring praying for the bell…If i were sparring/fighting with him i would stay away and dodge is attacks allowing him to chase me around the ring while giving him the occasional leg kick…soon he will be heavy breathing zombie…this is a good time to throw lots of head kicks and hooks…the monster will fall.
19 Ernesto // Oct 16, 2007 at 7:15 am
How is running around a ring going to help you? That’s a great fight strategy but very inefficient when it comes to training. Some people chose to stay away from sparring with someone like that for that reason - inefficiency.
20 Stack // Oct 16, 2007 at 10:05 am
This is not going to be popular but big guy won’t learn control until he finally gets hurt. And it will inevitably happen. The duration of his lesson in control lasts as long as the pain stays in memory.
21 Kote Law Loi // Oct 16, 2007 at 2:06 pm
PS!! I know what ernesto is talking about. The guys that want to hit hard and ask you to go easy. That brings ups some funny memories. Just gotta give them one good one, they learn fast.
22 batsang // Oct 16, 2007 at 9:51 pm
not to change the subject or anything, but should we worry about the whole staph infection making its round around gyms? muay thai gyms aren’t exactly the cleanest of places, and i really don’t think owners antiseptic down the pads (or bags, or floors for that matter) very much
23 Paul PP // Oct 17, 2007 at 5:57 am
I weigh 155 pounds and never! ever! spar anyone 20 pounds heavier than me, my rule of thumb. I also have very good control when i spar with smaller partners. You are plain crazy and looking for a punishment if you plan on sparring with a dude that heavy.
24 Bolo // Oct 17, 2007 at 9:55 am
I told him, I would spar with him next time. But yea, cant imagine him landing a full on kick or punch, that would be KO!
25 Anonymous // Oct 17, 2007 at 4:59 pm
just bathe in Thai linament and you won’t have to worry about staph.. a cold, the flu, cancer ot ever getting laid..
26 Mrblackmagic // Oct 21, 2007 at 7:10 am
I dont know this guy but I have been to different gyms in the states, tokyo and thailand and have dealt with different guys like this.
If he is giving answers like “thats only 10 percent of my power” hes an ass.
get someone with a solid right hand to sparr with him and just rattle his cage. Lighter guy is fine. Just punch him in the mouth hard…he will catch on.
27 Junaid Hamid // Oct 26, 2007 at 5:35 am
Side step Side step and what Side step Followed by a fierce piercing knee
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