Close Relatives
September 12, 2008 by nopstar
Hi guys-
One of the most rewarding things about having this blog, is that you get to meet (albeit virtually) lots of interesting people, living there dreams and doing it. I recently met Nathan who’s been living, training and teaching Muay Chaiya (MC) in Thailand. I’m really interested in MC and asked him to write us a post. On behalf of the MyMuayThai community, I want to thank you for sharing with us. If you are interesting in reading up on MC and Nathan’s adventures, you can do so on his blog. MyMuayThaiChaiya.com
-nopstar
Close Relatives
By Nathan
Nopstar has kindly asked me to contribute (and follow up on his post “Looking in the mirror”) where he touched on how Muay Thai is viewed by other martial artists, and specifically practitioners of Muay Thai Chaiya. This is something which I’ve been thinking about myself for a long time as I sit on the opposite side of the fence, as a Muay Thai Chaiya practitioner and teacher. It’s a tricky subject, and one that I am finding hard to write about because, as a martial artist I don’t believe in the old “my style is better than your style” which seems to be a natural side effect of the competitive side of people who care passionately about something they do or believe in (just look at how most religions disagree with each other!).

I liked they way Nopstar finished his post, quoting Ajarn Chah because at the end of the day, it’s all just about fighting. Each style of martial arts suits the purpose/conditions it was design for, and there really is no perfect style. I was lucky enough to become aware of Jeet Kune Do over ten years ago when I was still in the UK, and this really opened my eyes to the fact that everything has a use, and the intelligent person will learn how and when to use these things in at the right time and the correct situation. For me, this is closer to what “martial art” actually means. Understanding the whole picture, and not dwelling on the details.
Nopstar suggested that I write about what got me interested in Muay Chaiya in the first place and why I like the style, which I can talk about for hours… but I’ll try and keep it short :P
When I came to Thailand six years ago, I was not interested in learning Muay Thai as I didn’t consider it a martial art. It seemed like the style was engineered for ring fighting, following the rules that apply (and are rightly needed) and the techniques that are required to satisfy the judges. Don’t get me wrong, I had (and still have) a lot of respect for the Muay Thai guys. The level of training and conditioning that needs to be maintained to be a Muay Thai fighter should be respected. But I felt that technically I had little to learn from the style.

I still found myself occupied enough in Bangkok, as there are plenty of alternatives available (Aikido, Jujitsu, Kung Fu, Capoera etc) and at a higher level of teaching than was previously available to me in the UK.
There are only a few films that have really made a lasting impression on me, and one of them was Ong Bak. It was the first time that I had really seen any Muay Boran, and whilst Tony Ja certainly added a level of creativity to it, it still left me wanting to learn more. Ong Bak left me wondering if Muay Borran might hold something more for me than Muay Thai, but I wasn’t sure where to start. It seems to be the case that good martial arts teachers don’t need to advertise themselves.
Shortly after, I was talking with my friend Paolo Mendiola about Ong Bak, Muay Thai and MMA, and he convinced me to check out the Muay Chaiya school he was attending in Ekkamai, Sukhumvit. “You’ll love Baan Chang Thai” he told me, “Ajarn Lek knows his stuff”. At this point I knew nothing about Muay Chaiya or Muay Borran, only what Paolo had mentioned in our talks. A bare-knuckle martial art, with practical and strong moves certainly sounded cool.

My first lesson at Baan Chang Thai was great. Ajarn Lek is a lovely guy, very friend (as most Thais are) and very happy to teach anyone who is willing to learn. The class concentrated on conditioning through a base set of exercises (ten in all, each one done for three minutes), that teach your body important details of the Muay Chaiya style and give you the stamina not to be able to last a few round if need be. After that it was back to basics, and for that lesson and several after, I only learnt how to walk the Yang Sam Khum (A.Lek describes it as the “breathe of Muay Chaiya”) from which all of the techniques are initiated from. This seems really boring to some people (it’s a great way of deterring people who are not truly serious), but I was happy to do it as I understand that the foundations of any style are the most important part. Also, ‘emptying your cup’ is important, so you don’t carry baggage and bad habits from previous style (you don’t have to forget what you know, but start with a clean slate).This is very true in Muay Chaiya, the basic techniques alone are enough to give you an advantage in most situations, but quite a lot of it is opposite to many common styles, and take some real re-adjustment.
At the end of the lesson, I was invited to do some sparring. I love sparring, it’s fun. I love anything that lets play with the techniques and strategies I learnt from Jeet Kune Do (that includes Tekken on the PS2!). This is when I met K.Tae (you may have seen him play the old brother who kills himself in the Chaiya movie). Back then I considered myself a good technician, with a good sense of timing and rhythm. Fast hands and feet, I was confident I wouldn’t have a problem sparring with Tae. Squaring of, and I threw a quick lead kick to his face, which he blocks. “Wow, that hurt” I think and adjust my balance a little. I threw another kick, this time left to his mid-section, and again, I bring my foot back hurting.

Two kicks, and I didn’t want to kick him anymore! This was my first REAL lesson in Chaiya, block with your elbows and knees and hurt your opponent’s weapons. This was new to me, as I’d never really come across this concept before. Most other styles have ‘counters’ but this is different. Muay Chaiya focuses its blocks and parries to do real damage on the opponent.
After this first lesson, I was hooked. For the next 4 years I kept coming back to learn more, but as I was working a lot it was hard to fit in the time to get really good (although it gave me time to fully embrace the basics!). During that time, many people have passed through Baan Chang Thai, and I’ve had the opportunity to meet and train with a lot of great people. There is a great family atmosphere there, and learning and training is a lot of fun (I really miss the place!). Over a year ago, I decided to dedicate myself to my training and take it to the next level. This resulted in me quitting my job, enabling me to start training about 5 times a week, and eventually teach the style down here in Phuket.

The style itself is great. Fast compact moves with a strong guard (which rarely drops) and real power behind the moves. It’s not all about kicking people in the balls and eye gouges (although that does come into it) but about refining your movements into a common sense strategy. On many occasions I’ve noticed lots of similarities with this and Jeet Kune Do, which may have something to do with Muay Chaiya’s origins (as Ajarn Lek teaches it, there are other teachers after all!).
Ajarn Lek originally learnt from Kru Kaet Sirirapai, who had learnt Muay Chaiya from his father, and then went on to learn from another 12 teachers, learning different styles including other forms of Muay Boran. When Kru Kaet died, Kru Lek continued his studies with Kru Thong (who had studied for much longer with Kru Kaet) and learnt the Muay Chaiya that he still teaches today. Kru Kaet was a soldier, and so had ample opportunity to refine his techniques. Kru Thong was a fighter with huge experience, and fought over 200 times in the ring.

Both Kru Kaet and Kru Thong had many students, but few seem to be teaching these days (I’m trying to find more) and so it’s hard to find people teaching Muay Chaiya in its entirety. One of the problems is that people seem to concentrate on the flashy moves, (like the climbing up the body and elbowing/kneeing the head) and miss some of the important concepts of the basics. Whilst these more flashy moves are real, they are pretty impractical, and you have to be something special to pull them off when fighting someone who knows their stuff. The strength in any style is the basics, and there are plenty of more advanced moves in Muay Chaiya (which stem from the basics) that are practical and useful.
For any Muay Thai guy who wants to learn more about it’s origins, and learn a little more depth, then studying an old style is a great option. There are many techniques and ideas that can still be used in the ring, and from the Muay Thai guys I’ve met, a lot are interested in increasing the level detail in the techniques that they are used to. Combine this with the rigorous training of your standard Muay Thai fighter, it’s a winning combination. I named this post “Close relatives” as Muay Thai and Muay Chaiya come from the same past, and in this case, a little incest may be a good thing!
I’m interested on your guys thoughts on this, and I’m wanting to write more… any ideas?





Great post Nathan. And thanks Nop for bringing us a little diversity of style and history to the Thai martial arts.
Nathan – as far as thoughts on follow up posts, I’d like to hear about the basic differences in technique, stance, and philosophy between Muay Chaiya and Muay Thai.
wow that was a seriously awesome post. i agree with Tex, i’d like to hear about all the bare bones beginner stuff as well.
Thanks nathan, i lived near ekkamai for 5 months and didnt know that was there. I was wondering who your students are, are they regular fighters? on the most part do they want to learn muaychaiya to get an extra advantage in the ring?, or have they less interest in fighting in thailand and do it for other reasons.
Very good post! I always wondered about the origins of MT. Are there any top MT fighters today that actually use this style? sounds painful!
I also wonder how people feel about a farang teaching Muay Chaiya? Do you get flak? Do people assume you’re not legit?
good post! I also feel that analogy “close relatives” can also be aplied to cambodia and thailand, Muay Thai and Pradal Serey, Muay Boran and Kun Khmer Boran. P.S. But sadly thats not the thigns people see. just look at whats happening now. and nopstar if its not too intruding what are your thoughts on the situation at Preah vihear? im cambodian and id like to hear your thoughts on it
Can we please start banning people who use the word khmEr in relation with anything Thai? Jealous waaahh!
Nathan-
Great article, I’d actually like to see some of the blocks and how one could use it inside the ring and out. Maybe you could post a short clip or something?
LorKoteKote-
Everyone on mmt has a right to express their opinion… (as long as it isn’t blatantly racist etc.)
Littleman-
Not really the right post to be talking about this, I don’t want to take the focus of this post, I’ll send you and email on my thoughts.
Thanks everyone for the positive reception to my post :) I’m glad u like it.
TextMT-
Good idea on the comparison between MT and MC, I’ll give it some thought. As for me teaching old school MT in Thailand to Thai people, in Thai… yeh, I get mixed reactions (the irony hasn’t escaped me). Only today, the mother of a prospective student was surprised to see that the teacher wasn’t Thai. Most reactions are positive though, and I get more people surprised that I teach muay thai and I’m not that big a guy (they see most farang MT guys are pretty stacked – I’m not ;)
Commando & TonPo
Most people come to learn MT for self-defence or fitness. Some come to improve their ring fighting. Check out Kru Pedro (www.ancientmuaythai.com) who has used Chaiya in the ring in the past. Also do a youtube search on ‘yao chaiya’ to see the cute young Yao kicking ass in Phuket. There’s a problem with the style in the ring, where the judges don’t like the style so much. Kru’s Pedro’s students only win when they knockout, never on points :( he’s working on alternate strategies to counter this as we speak)
Nopstar-
I think most of the basic blocks could be used in the ring. Most of the ‘illegal’ stuff are moves that link in combination to the blocks etc so can be ignored for ring fighting. The important thing with most of the moves is properly understanding the underlying mechanisms behind the style that makes its moves effective. It’s not rocket science, but I’ve heard of Thai coaches not thinking a particular elbow effective because they think it’s not powerful. But this is only because, they don’t know the mechanism to make it so. I’ll have a think about which ones would make good examples… or which would best be used in the ring.
Again I extend my horizon. I came to the author’s blog through this blog (which are both bookmarked and visited daily by me hehe) – cool, that there are kind of “guest-articles” ;)
I heard a lot about Muay Boran and firstly I thought this was “Ong Bak” – never heard of Muay Chaya before. Strange, this isn’t mentioned in the lot of general material about Muay Thai a lot more when they have the same origin. I’m looking forward for more information about that really interesting stuff =D
Great Article
I would love to see some Training Vids, and Cant wait for the Follow up Article. Thanks Nopstar and Natb19 for all the Work.
Respectfully Muay Chaiya is often times viewed as ‘more authentic’ than Thai boxing because I think Thai Boxing intrinsically owes a lot of what it is to western boxing (ie rounds ,refs, etc).
I do think there is a school of thought that believes Muay Chaiya is more inherently Thai and therefore better in some way. Also because Thaiboxing is a sport this some how excludes it as a unique art of it’s own. I disagree with this but that’s my take.
You can’t apply Muay Thai to a street fight(or war for that matter)!! Muay Chaiya is like crav maga, it is the epitome of hand-to-hand combat. Muay Thai is like Muay Chaiya’s soft little brother(soft in comparison to Muay Chaiya of course).
Muay Thai can be pretty readily applied to a street fight.
I never met anyone involved in Krav Maga I’d consider even minimally credible.
That is because you have never met any of the Israelis who live it. MT Might, MIGHT!, be applied if you are fighting someone one on one in the street with people controling it and breaking it up if you goto the ground. WHat happens when you get to the ground and no one is there to pick you up?? MT has no ground game. The boxing and elbow aspect for sure but the kicks and knees are a bit more difficult when you are scrappin, You pick your leg up off the ground and your stability becomes 50%, even for a second that is danerous and risky.
Any how MC is more devastating they inflict the blows to the weapons(hands,arms,legs,etc) of the opponent aswell as the vital parts(Head, upper and lower torso).
I didn’t mean to say soft, I meant tame.
When it comes to reality you’re usually one against many, and the one that hits you is behind your back.
Muay Chaiya looks interesting, so this is MT with grappling and stuff, kinda extended MT.
It’s no shock that you cannot find a credible Krav Maga trainer easily.
The is the cute young Yao kicking ass @ Phuket.
It was a pleasues to see her training @ Rawai & she stood out in conferdance from most Thai female fighters. (she had 2 fights @ Phuket & won them both with eaze)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-CtEHG7SXE