Chuwattana – Marouf Dispute

Last week I was back in back in the Bangkok and spent the week training and catching up with the MuayThai scene in Bangkok.

Laura, Dii Mak and I decided to head down to Rajadomnern to catch some action.  Lots of the Chuwattana guys were on the bill.

I was introduced to the “Big Boss” of Chuwattana, Anmo… He had just returned from taking a group of fighters to fight in China. (More on that later)  He joked about how shady the judging was but didn’t seem that worked up about it.

Anmo explained he had just got back from taking a bunch of fighters to France.  (You may have seen the vid of Lidon vs. Lamsongkram ) He was pretty burnt up… he explained to me how he had been screwed over by the promoter of the event.

Anmo said that in his 20+ years of fight promotion he hadn’t run into anything like this and wanted to get the word out.   According to Anmoo the promoter of the event (Kader Marouf) promised to pay Anmo a total of €14,000 ($20,000) for his 5 fighters, but in the end was only paid €5,000.

I was forwarded the original email and response… by the looks of the addresses on this email, it seems like Anmo had sent this to some of the most respected peeps in MuayThai ( gym owners and promoters).  I’ll paste the original email if you want to get into the details.

According to Marouf he spent €9K on airfare and accommodations for the Chuwattana fighters and is only on the hook for €5K which he paid.

I spoke to a few people who are in fight promotion and they all concur that you don’t deduct flight and accommodations from the purse.

Was it a simple misunderstanding or was it shady promotion?  I personally find it hard to believe that Marouf thought he would be able to get top Thai talent to travel and fight for €1K after expenses/per fighter…  sounds like BS to me.  I guess the moral of this story, is get that shit in writing before you send any fighters… business is business.

Anmo explained normally he would ask for the money up front, but was willing to overlook that because he wanted the fighters to fight abroad.

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know shit about fight promotion.  I know its risky business and it’s often the promoter who’s left holding the bag, but this stinks…

On a side note, the event looked pretty stacked… it’s such a shame that with all that talent they headline event is Bob Sapp… really? Bob Sapp? Oh and why do they both have scars on them?  Do they have wild Lions running around Lyon?

MAINEVENT – Patrice QUARTERON vs Bob SAPP

Yohan LIDON vs LAMSONGKRAM CHUWATTANA

Fabio PINCA vs SINGMANEE SOR-SEESOMPONG

Albert CHEY vs JOMTHONG CHUWATTANA

Karim BENNOUI vs LAIMANGKORN CHUWATTANA

Michael PISCITELLO vs Rachid KABBOURI

Hocine BENNOUI vs SAMSAMUT KIATCHONGKAO

Abdallah MABEL vs SINGHYOK SOR-SEESAN

Thoughts, Opinions Ramblings?

I’ve copied the email chain… you be the judge.

Original Email from Annmo

“To whom it may concern

I’m Choocharoen Raveearamwong. Everybody calls me Anmo. I’m the official promoter in the Rajadamnern stadium and the owner of the Chuwattana gym. I took my 6 Thai fighters to Lyon in France with my gym’s coach and Takashi Aoshima, who is my Japanese friend. My 6 Thai fighters participated in the Muay Thai show, A1 World Combat Cup, on 28 November 2009 in Lyon, France. The promoter of the show is Kader Marouf.. I agreed with him that the purse for 6 fighters was EUR14,200, that he pays me 50% of the money when I arrive in Lyon, and that he pays me the rest of the money after weigh-in. But he didn’t give us the 50% before weigh-in. But he paid me only EUR5,000 after weigh-in. Then he said to me that he wish to pay me the rest of the money, EUR9,200, after the fight. But I said to him that I want the rest of the money before the fight. Then he said to me that he surely pay me the rest of the money after the fight. I trusted him, so my 6 Thai fighters had fought. After the show, he said to me that he would pay me the rest of the money at 2:00AM in my hotel. After 2:00AM, I met him with my Japanese friend. He said to me that he had to go to the stadium to meet the TV staff and that he would come back to my room after 20minutes and pay me the rest of the money, but he didn’t come back to the hotel. My Japanese friend is the witness. I left the hotel at 9:30 to go to the airport in Paris. Finally he didn’t pay me the rest of the money.. I lost EUR9,200. My fighters received only small money. I feel sorry for my fighters. I can’t forgive him for his not paying the money. I must protect fighters. I think that the person like him will do this again. Please everybody cooperate with each other to protect ourselves from money problems like this.

Best Regards

Choocharoen Raveearamwong”

Response from the Promoter

I’m agree with Mr Takashi that i’ll pay 14,000€ for everything and i pay the airlines tickets it’s 897.00€ by person and i pay 9 tickets for everybody after i get an email that Singmanee can’t come cause is in JAIL i dont know why anyway Mr Takashi told me he can bring an another fighter “DANTHAI” and he change other fighters too but i have to pay an another ticket or they can not come so i pay 10 tickets in TOTAL 8970€ plus i have to give 200€ for visas i said ok in weight in i pay 5000€ to Mr ANMO alone so can u explain me Mr ANMO what’is the total for everything please and i didnt ask the money for the taxe government wish i pay after they ask me they want a 5 stars hotel for a fighters cause i want take care of Mr ANMO in good hotel i have all prove i did everything right and now he want i became the black sheep i paid everybody i’m tired with all this shit if i was u and i dont get pay i’ll never go until i get paid and why u fight if i dont pay u ? i respect everybody i never fuck some one until if he want.

I pay french federation, WBC Mr Cusick, Supervisor Mr Hadj and all fighters before the fight so please stop talking shit about me i’m fighter before so i’ll paid fighters first trust me is not my first show and is not my last everybody know i pay fighters before they fight OK i pay u now bye bye

Response from a Promoter on the Email Chain

“Now, I am talking from my experience and what is commonly done in the USA, I can not speak for either Kader or Anmo.

1.  As a promoter, usually, I would see my budget and calculate all expenses (I am sure we all do this when we want to get into a business).  In this case, it would be air/ground transportation + room + food + advance money for visa + medical examinations + miscellaneous (such as vaseline, hand wraps, extra taxi trips or even good time after the fight, etc.) + money to pay ring officials + money to pay fighters.

The words in red(bold) are the one that Kader said were included together, but I don’t. I see them as separate expense items.

I am not saying that my method is correct, I am saying that this is how I and many promoters are doing.  So, that is why Anmo expected you to follow this method as well.

As for being the manager of fighters, as I am, I would negotiate the money to be paid to the fighters separate from other expenses that may incur (after all, regardless of how much profit the promoter makes, my fighters get pay the same anyway).  I may ask for the visa fee up front, and have it deducted form the total amount after the fight, or negotiate to have the promoter pay for it. But other expenses beyond this will be the responsibility of the promoter.

In closing, the emails are cc to many people, including some highly respectable persons, it is wise to refrain from using to harsh a language.

The email Anmo sent was to discredit the promoter, if the promoter can explain himself well, this same email will go back to haunt Anmo.

But all in all, it is best to face each other and start talking reason, with a mediator presiding over the meeting.  Looking at the list of names this email goes to, I can see a few respectable names in the Muay Thai community who can act as the mediator.”